Moved to electric: My Tesla Adventure

[Saracen]

I would trust them with the performance because with an autonomous driving taxi service they won't get a choice on that. Someone so drunk that fluids are streaming out of both ends is the worry, the rental service would have to have some stonking guarantees that they would detail the car afterwards.

When I specced a Tesla out it came to under 100K, which was well outside my work car allowance but then I needed a long range as part of the spec and they can be cheaper. As a 3 year old second hand vehicle you can get one for 50K.

So yes, time will tell. Perhaps someone who can just get the money together for a second hand car will use a taxi mode to help cover the costs. Perhaps companies will buy a fleet of Teslas instead of company cars and add them to the local pool when not in use. Perhaps when someone's car gets to 3 years old they will just set it loose to fend for itself and make money and go buy a new one, that is the thing with disruptive technologies you really can't tell if or how it will eventually work.

I did say somewhere that the downside reduces once we have fully autonomous cars. But even then, there's a risk of carelessness damaging the interior, expensive leather. And con't forget plain human jealousy and envy can make people do plain nasty things just because you can afford things they can't. I speak from experience of being on the receiving end, with cars, and more than once.

And my bet is fully autonomous cars on the road, as normal, is some way off yet.

On that point, tfboy, bear in mind the "oik" renting your car might decide where he wants to go, and leave it parked, is in an area of town that you wouldn't dream of leaving your car unless it had an SAS squad guarding it. The ooint is you don't know where it'll end up.

On the cost, Dances, I did start out by saying "£70k to £160k". Yes, you can get Tesla's for £100k, but high-spec'd top-end models will be £160k or more.

I remember looking at a 3-series Beemer in the 80's and thinking "Wow, 9k isn't that bad .... until you spec it up. By the time you've added nice seats, alloys, sunroof, etc, etc, it was £19k. These days, the base price has gone up, in relative terms and the option list down, but even so, the bare catalog price and the price the buyer ends up paying can be way, WAY different.

Bear in mind that if you have someone even seriously contemplating £70k, let alone £100k or more, they have a LOT of options for very nice cars that will cost much less, so they have already demonstrated an willingness to indulge themselves and spend serious money doing it.

After all a £70k base model of car X is competing with a £50k car Y with £20k of options. Also, if you can spend £70k on a car you can probably spend £80k, or even £100k, if you really want to. Anything in that price range is either a high-priority indulgence for those pushing to afford it, or a whim for those that can do it on a whim.

[Saracen]

I have been thinking long and hard about this. I volunteered for the trial and have received some litterature they've put together that covers the rental stuff. I've had long discussions with the owner as to how best go about this, limiting risk, etc.

The normal Tesla rental is £150/day all in. If a client decides to take another customer's car, then the pricing varies depending on the spec of the car. For my P90DL (and P100D models), daily cost is double that. The thought is it's high enough to discourage tyre kickers. I had the reverse psychology: if an oik pays £300/day, then I wondered if they then thought entitled to do what they like...

When it comes to Tesla owners, it's quite common for someone to lend out their car to another Tesla owner in trouble, FOC, or in exchange of a few beers or something else. There is a lot of trust amongst the community and on the private Tesla Facebook groups. Of course, this all goes out the window as soon as it's a public hiring service. Nonetheless, I admire and trust (probably naively) that an renter will look after the car. There are of course the charging elements one needs to know about a little bit so there is a minimal amount of education / recommendation given.

As the service hasn't gone properly live yet, this is all speculation and no doubt pricing / policies will be tweaked after a few weeks / months so it reflects better the business needs and renting demand.

Your comment on supercar hiring is interesting and I hadn't thought to look and see how it compares to what is being offered with the Tesla.

I'm not so sure £300/day would discourage all tyre-kickers. I mean, it's not that much. If someone offered me a P90DL for £300 for the day, I'd be tempted, if only because it'd give me a chance to put the car well through it's paces without bothering with dealers, test drives, etc. It kinda legitimises giving it a workout. I mean, I'm certainly not going to set out to wreck it, and undoubtedly wouldn't, but nor am I going to respect it the way I would if it was mine. After all, it's a 'rental'.

As for your car being insured, well, put it this way, tfboy. Some years ago, I had occasion to talk to BMW's Press office about a loaner M5 for a project. It was legit, I was a journalist with a valid project and a commission, and fairly experienced with high performance cars .... as an owner of a brand new M3. BMW were cooperative, but did stress to me that while they expected a car like an M5 to be, I think the phrase was "appropriately and properly tested" they had just recently received one back from a certain TV program that seemed to think that phrase meant taking it onto private property and seeing how big a cloud of tyre smoke they could generate pulling non-stop doughnuts with it. It went out with brand new tyres and came back with them bald and worn to the cords.

I don't know about you, but if it's MY high-end car, it seems to me there's plenty an "oik" could do with it that's not bad enough to be an insurance claim, but is WAY beyond what I'd do to, or allow to be done to, my car. I can almost see three or four "young gentlemen" using it for a pub crawl, perhaps at the other end of the country. Or some randy young "oik" seeing how much pulling power it has, and I don't mean torque. Do you want to risk your nice Tesla bring used as a beer coach one night and a portable knocking shop the next?

Do you smoke? If, like me you don't, how about getting your car back smelling like a week-old ash tray?

And another thing .... how do you like dealing with hassle at airports, when you get back from a trip?

So .... scenario. You go away and rent out your car. When you get back, before accepting your car back from the "rental" company, you're going to have to go over it with a fine tooth'd comb, and a forensic microscope. If you don't, and accept tbe car back, and the next day discover damage, I'd bet my left gonad the rental company will deny any and all liability, as you signed to accept the car back. So you need a very thorough check when you book it in, and a doubly thorough one, inside and out, when you take it back from them. After all, if the rental company miss something when they take the car back from the renter, they surely won't tell you and will hope you miss it on the inspection.

Do you want all the potential hassle? Is it worth it for the rental income?


Obviously, it's a personal decision, and I grant you, I'm of an age and temperament where I am extremely hassle-averse, and go quite a way, and to lengths, to avoid getting into hassle. I have enough to do and life's short enough to spent it checking my car over or arguing liability with the rental company.

Personally, far from wanting the daily rental while I'm away, I get a local car hire firm to drive to to and collect me from the airport, or cruise terminal. It costs a couple of hundred, but saves on hassle .... and parking charges because my car's safely at home in the garage.

Maybe none of thjs bothers you. Maybe you'll take the rental income and put up with the hassle-risk. If so, fair enough. Your call. But me? Nah, I don't think so.

As I said, I see why the rental company like it but, for me, £300/day? Not even close to enough. YMMV, as they say.

[tfboy]

Thanks for that. Interesting stuff
I know the rental company, they specialise in Tesla and have a very clear policy on responsibility. They say:
"Prior to rental, our team carefully prepare and inspect each Tesla, removing and safely storing any personal items and cleaning the interior of the vehicle. The exterior is cleaned using contactless methods to eliminate any chance of paintwork damage.
The Client receives a comprehensive handover of the vehicle, ensuring they understand the various features and functions fully. They are provided with a direct line to our team throughout their rental to use as required for support and assistance.
Upon return, the car is inspected and any damage is recorded and charged for immediately. The car is then cleaned ready for the Owner, or the next Client."

[DanceswithUnix]

I did say somewhere that the downside reduces once we have fully autonomous cars. But even then, there's a risk of carelessness damaging the interior, expensive leather. And con't forget plain human jealousy and envy can make people do plain nasty things just because you can afford things they can't. I speak from experience of being on the receiving end, with cars, and more than once.

And my bet is fully autonomous cars on the road, as normal, is some way off yet.

<snip>

On the cost, Dances, I did start out by saying "£70k to £160k". Yes, you can get Tesla's for £100k, but high-spec'd top-end models will be £160k or more.

If you go back and re-read: http://forums.hexus.net/automotive/3...ml#post3821992
then Tesla's rental service is predicated on their autonomous driving software working. They believably claim they are not far off being safer than a human.

I'm sure you are right that a car specced up to 160K isn't going to end up in any rental scheme, but then most cars sold are not top spec but are best you can get within a certain budget often set by a level of company allowance and the lease deal you can get.

[Saracen]

If you go back and re-read: http://forums.hexus.net/automotive/3...ml#post3821992
then Tesla's rental service is predicated on their autonomous driving software working. They believably claim they are not far off being safer than a human.

I'm sure you are right that a car specced up to 160K isn't going to end up in any rental scheme, but then most cars sold are not top spec but are best you can get within a certain budget often set by a level of company allowance and the lease deal you can get.

Yes, but if you reread the thread, you'll see that it's also covering the Tesla-only rental company tfboy is currently in discussion with. Are you suggesting fully autonomous driving is here already? The tech may be, or may nearly be, but we have both public opinion to convince, abd a legislative framework to consider.

Besides, IMHO, whether it's driverless or oik-driven only changes some of the risks. Oithers apply to both, and wouldn't change my conclusion.

I have no accesz to Tesla sales data, for don't know who specifies there car how. However, looking at Tesla's available stick, a considerable number of P100s are in the £150k category. Yes, many copanies provide a budget for an individual's company car, but then it'd bet that the company are going to be the one's deciding if it's rented out, and getting the revenue if it was. In that type of company car, I'd bet a small proportion even budget for £70k cars, except very senior executives. If the car is leased, then I'd be astonished if leasing agreements didn't preclude this. After all, the asset belongs to the lease company and if an expensive vehicle comss back with a massive mileage because it's been taxi'd out, then their asset is devalued, and if the lease includes servicing, tyres, etc, then renting it out has a significant direct impact on the running costs and TCO.

Of course, the situation with a "company car" is a bit different if you own the company. Probably only in that situation wuth a company car is the driver going to be terribly personally invested in how the car is treated. I've never mistrested a company car, but nor have I felt any attachment to them.

[Saracen]

Thanks for that. Interesting stuff
I know the rental company, they specialise in Tesla and have a very clear policy on responsibility. They say:
"Prior to rental, our team carefully prepare and inspect each Tesla, removing and safely storing any personal items and cleaning the interior of the vehicle. The exterior is cleaned using contactless methods to eliminate any chance of paintwork damage.
The Client receives a comprehensive handover of the vehicle, ensuring they understand the various features and functions fully. They are provided with a direct line to our team throughout their rental to use as required for support and assistance.
Upon return, the car is inspected and any damage is recorded and charged for immediately. The car is then cleaned ready for the Owner, or the next Client."

The details there look very similar to standard rental T&C's, in principle, nominally adjusted to things like personal effects.

I take the point about obvious internal or external damage, but you still have a damaged car, with the resulting hassle of getting it fixed. More worryingly, if the car has been .... driven hard .... what about unseen wear and tear. If some idiot emulates that TV company, not only does it wear out tyres but it has to put substantual loading on things like suspension, not to mention tyre and brake wear.

[buttersideup]

The issues with trust and respect for other's property can be fixed to a large extent by using a reputation based feedback system. You just need to ensure that people are responsible and accountable. I believe new AirBnB customers sometimes find it difficult to rent places, but they have a system for others to 'vouch' for them IIRC (presumably the others take a hit on their reputation if whoever they've vouched for then abuses the place). Screw up an autonomous car? No problem, the damage will be charged to your credit card, and you won't be able to rent one again.

I would be amazed if Tesla didn't implement this sort of thing when they offer to rent out customer's cars on their behalf. Much like AirBnB, I'm sure they'll let owners set feedback thresholds, and/or use things like credit checks and deposits. Perhaps they'll start with self-driving ride sharing - "you appear to be driving your Tesla to Manchester today, would you like to take this chap along for £40 whilst you're at it?". I'm sure they'll put CCTV inside as well, like some taxis do. Don't like that? No problem, just pay the extra for a conventional taxi.

I would imagine if this sort of system is successful that you could probably get your car to earn you £10,000 per year (at least early on, before the market gets saturated - taxi drivers earn about £18k I believe). For a £35,000 car that's not too bad, even if you do end up spending an extra £2000 per year on additional maintenance and electricity, that's still a free car every 4 years.

[tfboy]

The company renting out the Teslas obviously have a lot of experience from their pool cars. If you wanted to rent a Tesla, you could either pick one of their cars or see what's available that deviates from their standard specification. They have the mechanisms in place to ensure this goes smoothly. A 90D (their car spec) isn't exactly a slouch by any standards, so I'm sure they know how to manage clients.

As for myself, it's only when using their valet parking system. I wouldn't leave the car with them unless I'm out of the country. So essentially, it's lost time where the car would just be sitting in a secure car park, costing me a small amount. If I join the car sharing scheme, then they manage the whole thing and I pocket just shy of £150 a day for each day it's rented out. There's no guarantee mine will be rented out - it's based on demand and availability. I just sign up to the scheme and whilst they have my car (and I pay for the parking / cleaning / charging), they have it available to rent out. The client also won't have the full experience as they won't have the mobile platform integration - that will still be linked to my phone and login. I wonder whether they'll disable the remote monitoring. If they don't, I can track what the client is doing and even play a few pranks Of course, that isn't something I'd do and I'd probably not want to know where they are as it might just instill some concern when there's nothing I could do about it anyway!

[Saracen]

The issues with trust and respect for other's property can be fixed to a large extent by using a reputation based feedback system. You just need to ensure that people are responsible and accountable. I believe new AirBnB customers sometimes find it difficult to rent places, but they have a system for others to 'vouch' for them IIRC (presumably the others take a hit on their reputation if whoever they've vouched for then abuses the place). Screw up an autonomous car? No problem, the damage will be charged to your credit card, and you won't be able to rent one again.

I would be amazed if Tesla didn't implement this sort of thing when they offer to rent out customer's cars on their behalf. Much like AirBnB, I'm sure they'll let owners set feedback thresholds, and/or use things like credit checks and deposits. Perhaps they'll start with self-driving ride sharing - "you appear to be driving your Tesla to Manchester today, would you like to take this chap along for £40 whilst you're at it?". I'm sure they'll put CCTV inside as well, like some taxis do. Don't like that? No problem, just pay the extra for a conventional taxi.

I would imagine if this sort of system is successful that you could probably get your car to earn you £10,000 per year (at least early on, before the market gets saturated - taxi drivers earn about £18k I believe). For a £35,000 car that's not too bad, even if you do end up spending an extra £2000 per year on additional maintenance and electricity, that's still a free car every 4 years.

There's a lot in that I agree with, especially for £small-ish. I was talking about current Teslas at, what, £65k to £165k. To earn £10k at £150/day, it has to be rented out some 67 days of the year. That's a lot of time to be without your £100k, or whatever, car. If money matters that much, why not just buy a £70k Merc instead of a £100k Tesla, and save the hassle?

This scheme may well come in, and may well get some utilisation. How much remains to be seen.

But, having had fairly expensive cars vandalised several times by people that appear to be motivated by envy, all I can say is personally no way wpuld I put my £100k car in unknown hands for £150k a day. It's not worth the hassle, the time filling in insurance claims then letter-writing when they try to cheap-out on you or, in one case, the small claims court action to get insurance to pay out in full.

The £150 is way, WAY short of what I'd want to voluntarily risk the hassle, because I value my private time, and the peace and quiet, highly.

And, if a few days of £150 meant that much to me, I doubt I could have afforded the car in the first place.

And if I'm reluctant to rent my car out, you can imagine my reaction to AirBnB. Hell will freeze over first. No way, no how, not a snowball's chance in hell.

Each to his own, however.

[tfboy]

OK, Saracen, I get it that you wouldn't want to hand over the keys to your car to a stranger much like you wouldn't leave your house to AirBnB. What about renting a room out via AirBnB with you still there? Would you do that? I ask because I've done the analogy with car pooling

Another way of getting others to benefit form and experience the car has been through said car pooling. Shortly after I bought the Tesla, I joined Blablacar and have used it a few times, particularly when driving down to South West France (near Spain). As I do the 850+ mile journey alone in a single day, I have all the space and every now and then, it's nice to have company, so I decided to give Blablacar a go.

For those who aren't familiar with it, it's a bit like Uber, except that you say you have x number of seats available for driving from A to B. People search a trip they need transport for and if your drive matches their criteria, they can book you. The driver determines the far for each segment / passenger (Blablacar advise on what a decent going rate is) and then you approve and they have a seat booked.

Doing it in the Tesla where I need to stop a few times at Superchargers on the way actually works out really well: I selected the charging locations as pick up / drop off locations and would meet people there. As I didn't charge any more than the recommended rate, people would search for their trip requirements and when they have the choice between crammed in the back of a Renault 5 or in the comfort of a Tesla, the choice is quickly made As a result, I've ended up with 3-4 passengers in the car at a time.

The modest rate charged and income I get pretty much cover the motorway tolls in France (which aren't cheap - it's about €100 each way for what I do). Plus I get the benefit of the free Supercharging, so it's a way for me to get the free travel down and back, whilst discussing the car, tech with people.

I've not had any bad experiences at all, everyone has been very accommodating and despite planning a trip, it's not always easy to predict a 5-minute time slot when doing a 800 mile journey! But it has worked very well, I've received very good feedback and they have all absolutely loved the silence and comfort of the car. A great way to show the electric drive train and tech to people who've never experienced it before.

[peterb]

OK, Saracen, I get it that you wouldn't want to hand over the keys to your car to a stranger much like you wouldn't leave your house to AirBnB. What about renting a room out via AirBnB with you still there? Would you do that? I ask because I've done the analogy with car pooling

Another way of getting others to benefit form and experience the car has been through said car pooling. Shortly after I bought the Tesla, I joined Blablacar and have used it a few times, particularly when driving down to South West France (near Spain). As I do the 850+ mile journey alone in a single day, I have all the space and every now and then, it's nice to have company, so I decided to give Blablacar a go.

For those who aren't familiar with it, it's a bit like Uber, except that you say you have x number of seats available for driving from A to B. People search a trip they need transport for and if your drive matches their criteria, they can book you. The driver determines the far for each segment / passenger (Blablacar advise on what a decent going rate is) and then you approve and they have a seat booked.

Doing it in the Tesla where I need to stop a few times at Superchargers on the way actually works out really well: I selected the charging locations as pick up / drop off locations and would meet people there. As I didn't charge any more than the recommended rate, people would search for their trip requirements and when they have the choice between crammed in the back of a Renault 5 or in the comfort of a Tesla, the choice is quickly made As a result, I've ended up with 3-4 passengers in the car at a time.

The modest rate charged and income I get pretty much cover the motorway tolls in France (which aren't cheap - it's about €100 each way for what I do). Plus I get the benefit of the free Supercharging, so it's a way for me to get the free travel down and back, whilst discussing the car, tech with people.

I've not had any bad experiences at all, everyone has been very accommodating and despite planning a trip, it's not always easy to predict a 5-minute time slot when doing a 800 mile journey! But it has worked very well, I've received very good feedback and they have all absolutely loved the silence and comfort of the car. A great way to show the electric drive train and tech to people who've never experienced it before.

How does that affect your insurance? (Car pooling is generally covered if it covers the cost of fuel, otherwise if it is for any form of reward, then different terms may apply.)

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Out of interest,since the batteries for most electric cars are guaranteed for 5 to 8 years,what happens after that?? Can you get the batteries replaced and will the cost be high?? I am only saying this since,its going to have a big effect on the secondhand price as the cars get older,if the batteries are not available anymore or it costs a lot for replacement batteries,and if it means the cars get ditched that would mean a whole lot of newish cars being junked,especially for the more value orientated models.

[directhex]

Out of interest,since the batteries for most electric cars are guaranteed for 5 to 8 years,what happens after that?? Can you get the batteries replaced and will the cost be high?? I am only saying this since,its going to have a big effect on the secondhand price as the cars get older,if the batteries are not available anymore or it costs a lot for replacement batteries,and if it means the cars get ditched that would mean a whole lot of newish cars being junked,especially for the more value orientated models.

The battery is just like any other car part, so a dealer can replace it - but outside-warranty fatigue affecting range is so uncommon nobody has a standard pricing for it.

That said, some have prices for battery upgrades - e.g. BMW will add 50% range to an i3 for €7000. Renault will double range for €9900 (€3500 for people with a leased instead of owned battery). Those upgraded batteries are new.

[Flibb]

Out of interest,since the batteries for most electric cars are guaranteed for 5 to 8 years,what happens after that?? Can you get the batteries replaced and will the cost be high?? I am only saying this since,its going to have a big effect on the secondhand price as the cars get older,if the batteries are not available anymore or it costs a lot for replacement batteries,and if it means the cars get ditched that would mean a whole lot of newish cars being junked,especially for the more value orientated models.

Renault does battery hire, on 2nd hand cars as well as new. When the battery degrades you get a new one, but the rental price is based on mileage.
For my usage it would cost £90 a month, my petrol is around £120/month. In two years time I will considering electric, but at the moment it does not add up for me.

[tfboy]

How does that affect your insurance? (Car pooling is generally covered if it covers the cost of fuel, otherwise if it is for any form of reward, then different terms may apply.)

Blablacar cover you for any extra requirement. https://www.blablacar.co.uk/insurance-ridesharing

Out of interest,since the batteries for most electric cars are guaranteed for 5 to 8 years,what happens after that?? Can you get the batteries replaced and will the cost be high?? I am only saying this since,its going to have a big effect on the secondhand price as the cars get older,if the batteries are not available anymore or it costs a lot for replacement batteries,and if it means the cars get ditched that would mean a whole lot of newish cars being junked,especially for the more value orientated models.

In the case of Tesla, the batteries (and drive train) are warrantied for 8 years unlimited miles. I've read more about drive train issues than battery problems, and of course no one knows exactly after 8 years what will happen.

I'm not too worried for a couple of reasons: 1. 8 years is a very long time in an EV's life. It's a bit like me asking you what are you going to do with the battery in your mobile phone in 5 years time.

Maybe replacements (of higher capacity) will be available? After 8 years, the tech will have probably moved on so much that I'd want to change battery and/or car as a whole. I have the benefit of a facelift model so can actually have the 100kWh battery pack fitted, although my car is only has Autopilot hardware version 1 which is already deprecated (yes, the software performance of AP2 hasn't yet reached parity with AP1, but they're getting there).

[Saracen]

OK, Saracen, I get it that you wouldn't want to hand over the keys to your car to a stranger much like you wouldn't leave your house to AirBnB. What about renting a room out via AirBnB with you still there? Would you do that? I ask because I've done the analogy with car pooling

Another way of getting others to benefit form and experience the car has been through said car pooling. Shortly after I bought the Tesla, I joined Blablacar and have used it a few times, particularly when driving down to South West France (near Spain). As I do the 850+ mile journey alone in a single day, I have all the space and every now and then, it's nice to have company, so I decided to give Blablacar a go.

For those who aren't familiar with it, it's a bit like Uber, except that you say you have x number of seats available for driving from A to B. People search a trip they need transport for and if your drive matches their criteria, they can book you. The driver determines the far for each segment / passenger (Blablacar advise on what a decent going rate is) and then you approve and they have a seat booked.

Doing it in the Tesla where I need to stop a few times at Superchargers on the way actually works out really well: I selected the charging locations as pick up / drop off locations and would meet people there. As I didn't charge any more than the recommended rate, people would search for their trip requirements and when they have the choice between crammed in the back of a Renault 5 or in the comfort of a Tesla, the choice is quickly made As a result, I've ended up with 3-4 passengers in the car at a time.

The modest rate charged and income I get pretty much cover the motorway tolls in France (which aren't cheap - it's about €100 each way for what I do). Plus I get the benefit of the free Supercharging, so it's a way for me to get the free travel down and back, whilst discussing the car, tech with people.

I've not had any bad experiences at all, everyone has been very accommodating and despite planning a trip, it's not always easy to predict a 5-minute time slot when doing a 800 mile journey! But it has worked very well, I've received very good feedback and they have all absolutely loved the silence and comfort of the car. A great way to show the electric drive train and tech to people who've never experienced it before.

Taking that in reverse, I'll do BlaBlaCar (BBCar from now on, in this post), then room via AirBnB, then house.

First, BlaBlaCar.

That, I'd consider, both as driver and passenger IF circumstances suit. But, as a passenger, I'd regard it as unlikely I'd go for it. Why not? Because it strikes me as a 21st century social-media version of hitch-hiking. Really, it suits neither my age nor mindset.

But I stress that these responses are what I personally would or would not do, whereas much of what I said before is about what my opinion of what most owners of expensive cars would do. The difference, obviously, is that I can answer authoritatively for what I'd do, but it's only an opinion of what others would do, and even then, there'll be exceptions.

If, as seems the case, you would rent your Tesla out, then what we really need to know is whether "most" owners of expensive cars would do as you would, or as I would ... or rsther, wouldn't.

Back to BBCar. If I was doing a trip to S.W. France, would I use BBCar to look for a passenger? Frankly, no, because I'd fly and hire a car when I got there. Or, not go.

If I had to go by car because I had to make several stops en-route and flying wasn't sn option, then there are several factors (for me) in the decision :-

- the benefit of a pleasant companion,
- the risk of a boring or unpleasant companion,
- the fare money I'd receive, and
- the complication of having to fit at least partially round someone else's agenda.

Frankly, the far money isn't going to be enough for it to be much an inducement, and certainly not enough to outweigh the rest.

Pleasant companion? I'm not an especially social person and, with the exception of wife, close friends and immediate family, would certainly regard a trip like that as a time for quiet, peace, alone me-time. There might be parts of it where a companion would be nice, but the odds are the bulk of it I'd be wishing I was on my own, not feeling I had to make small-talk.

And that's without the risk of a boor, or someone smelly, or a smoker (who often reek of it even when not smoking), and so on.

As for fare, I've not looked it up but I assume that alternatives, like flying, rail, etc provide a ceiling and a car-share has to be lower than that. Ergo, nowhere near enough to be much of an inducement to me to carshare.

Then, "complications".

I put a high value on the ability to change my mind. For example, if I'm going Friday, to be able to decide to go Thursday, or Saturday, or next week, or not at all, and not be accountable to others. Or for that matter, to decide go go via Nice for a few days, or stop off for a day or two's shopping in Paris. Or divert to ... you get the idea.

This might sound like I'm rich, and fancy free. No, but I am semi-retired, financially independent, home owner, absolutely debt-free, with very low fixed monthly payments and I work when, if and for how long I choose. And if I do work, I can do it from pretty much anywhere, providing I have a laptop and a way of charging it. So I could decide, for instance, to mothball the house for 6 months, rent a cheap cottage in France, Spain, Italy etc, off the beaten (I.e. tourist) track and go on a retreat.

You should be detecting a theme. A value being fancy-free, not tied-down. Arranging a trip with a BBCar passenger implies either letting someone down at the last minute, or sacrificing that fancy-free ability to be half way to point A and deciding to go to B, or Z instead, or en-route.

Looked at with my priorities, BBCar is a non-starter. Neither the modest fare income nor the mandatory, unavoidable company are appealling, but they do remove my option for spontaneity.

Right, back to AirBnB. I think I'll revise the order I deal with them .... see, spontaneity.

Whole house AirBnB when not present? Hell, no, as I think we've established. As far as I'm concerned, there's only two conceivable benefits :-

- save the cost of hotel, villa rental, etc, wherever I go, and
- get to stay in a home, not a rental.

I don't give a hoot about the costs saved. Either I can afford it, or I don't do it. As for staying in someone's home, truthfully, that makes me feel VERY uncomfortable as I'd feel responsible for anything that happened while I was there, my fault or not. Nah, I'd rather book a hotel or rent an Auberge.

So, whole house? No, even if I wasn't concerned about what strangers were up to in my home.

Rent a room on AirBnB while I'm there? Even more than when I'm not, hell, no. Why? No spare rooms. We have 5 bedrooms for the two of us. One is master bed, and second is the spare I use if I go to hed late (which is often) and the wife's asleep. So the spare isn't actually spare. Three is my homs office, four is my "lab" and five is the library, music room, second TV room, etc.

That is to say, we USE all our rooms fully as is, with no option for tenants. On the rare occasions family come to stay, I revert to the mastr full-time and my spare becomes a guest room.

So, AirBnBing a "room" implies either losing my office, "lab" or library, etc, or cramping my own options by either going to bed earier than I MIGHT choose, or waking the wife up when I do.

The common theme running through all this is that we have our lives, and resources (including home) set up to best serve our needs, and to rent a room out means compromising on those needs, .... and for what?

Don't need it. Again, it's not that we're rich, but that our needs are modest and very well served by having things as we have them. To rent a room out wrecks that, but even worse, and I mean far, far, FAR worse is that having a tenant renting a room compromises the privacy and sanctity of our home, our castle, our refuge from the world and short of dire need, to the point of NO other option, no way in hell would I rent a room out, while I'm living here.

It's all about marginal values of money.

What does the income from renting out a room, or similarly, renting out my car while I'm not using it, benefit me? A few hundred? A few grand a year? Frankly, if I wanted extra money, I'd work a bit more and keep my home a home, not a hostel for transients.

It's that same perceived marginal value of money that I think means most people that can afford, or at least those that can comfortably afford, very expensive cars see the extra couple of hundred quid in term of what I'll buy .... a couple of nice shirts, a not too extravagant night out with the wife, one shoe of a very good class pair, and so on.

Granted, there are those that got rich by grabbing every last penny they could, but my experience is that most of thise with enough money where a comfortable standard of living is a given and that don't have to worry about mortgage/rent or how to pay the utility bills but that all that's taken care of and a good chunk left over, after savings, investments, pension contribs, etc, are the kind that can afford to comfortably splurge on expensive cars, and have a different perception of what, say, £500 buys, to those for whom £500 represents total savings in a good year, or even relief from red debt letters or bailiff's visits.

The marginal value of anvamount of money, be it £100 or £100,000, depends entirely on your wealth and income, and people that highly value £100 can't afford a £160k car in the first place.

As you can afford an exoensive car, what does £100 mean? Eating next week? A month free from sleepness nights of worry over bills and debts? Or a good night out?

I'd bet on the latter, or some variant of it. Or at least, it would for most people with £100-160K cars.