Zak's Theory of Car Power Relativity - 2017 edition

[philehidiot]

With regards to the engine size and speed, etc. I ride a bike that'll do 0-60 in 2.9 seconds, do 150mph and drink fuel at a bankrupting rate. The reason? Because I was doing a lot of motorway work and I wanted power at the low end as well as a bike that wouldn't be troubled by cruising at higher speeds. I was riding big single cylinder bikes not suited to this purpose before hand (great in winter though). This bike sits at 70mph in 6th gear whilst the engine is outputting peak torque. This access to immediate power has saved my life. As for a limit of 100mph, I think this is actually very sensible. I cruise at an indicated 90mph in the outside lane on the motorway in most situations for safety reasons (yeh, yeh, if you don't believe me I'll go into it) and the end result is that it's very rare I encounter a situation where exceeding 90mph is the solution. Where I have exceeded 100mph during an emergency the reason as been that I've been too busy dealing with it to monitor my speed and by the time the danger has passed and it's safe to consult the speedo I'm past 100mph... what's annoying is that around 95 or so my bike hits a power band and just tries to take off... it's so awesome and I really want to try it out but I also don't particularly want to go to a track day or anything.

I also had a situation where I had to stop and use an emergency phone on part of the M1 with no shoulder. The stopping area was <100m long I'd say. I had about 50 meters to get from stationary up to speed before rejoining... in flowing rush hour traffic. Suffice to say I would have never even considered stopping to report those peds on the motorway if I was in a car. The bike was at 67mph in first gear within 4 seconds (camera footage is handy) but in a car this would have been downright dangerous - I'd have said my missus' car would have been at ~30mph before rejoining and by the time you realise you're going so slowly, you're committed with nowhere to go but lane 1. I personally think this no hard shoulder idea is extremely dangerous and it has already seen one fatality. It also means the cops don't seem to patrol these areas as there's nowhere to safely stop anyone.

[peterb]

I mean what I say, and I say what I mean, usually.

Oh right - I'll look forward to seeing the housing development on your mobile phone screen then!

[DanceswithUnix]

With regards to the engine size and speed, etc. I ride a bike that'll do 0-60 in 2.9 seconds, do 150mph and drink fuel at a bankrupting rate.

On the other extreme my first car was a 1.0 Mini, 1974 I think (it was a long time ago) with about 40bhp and some of those horses had clearly scarpered. The thing was bloody dangerous, could barely manage over 70 and similarly awful drum brakes all around. It taught me that when the brown stuff is on the fan you have three choices: Brake out of trouble, accelerate out of trouble or steer out of trouble. Of those I had one choice, the handling was pretty good, so I steer. These days I only drive cars with decent power and vented disks all around, that's got nothing to do with speeding it's about having a more pleasant driving experience every day and something in the bag to keep me alive on those odd occasions when things get hairy.

I do wonder if a 2000kg electric vehicle has the chassis dynamics to steer around problems as well as a 1200kg petrol car.

[peterb]

On the other extreme my first car was a 1.0 Mini, 1974 I think (it was a long time ago) with about 40bhp and some of those horses had clearly scarpered. The thing was bloody dangerous, could barely manage over 70 and similarly awful drum brakes all around. It taught me that when the brown stuff is on the fan you have three choices: Brake out of trouble, accelerate out of trouble or steer out of trouble. Of those I had one choice, the handling was pretty good, so I steer. These days I only drive cars with decent power and vented disks all around, that's got nothing to do with speeding it's about having a more pleasant driving experience every day and something in the bag to keep me alive on those odd occasions when things get hairy.

Ah yes, I had the 850 cc version - the 0-60 time was best measured with a calendar! It was fun though, the noise and road feedback made it feel much faster than it actually was!

[spacein_vader]

On the other extreme my first car was a 1.0 Mini, 1974 I think (it was a long time ago) with about 40bhp and some of those horses had clearly scarpered. The thing was bloody dangerous, could barely manage over 70 and similarly awful drum brakes all around. It taught me that when the brown stuff is on the fan you have three choices: Brake out of trouble, accelerate out of trouble or steer out of trouble. Of those I had one choice, the handling was pretty good, so I steer. These days I only drive cars with decent power and vented disks all around, that's got nothing to do with speeding it's about having a more pleasant driving experience every day and something in the bag to keep me alive on those odd occasions when things get hairy.

I do wonder if a 2000kg electric vehicle has the chassis dynamics to steer around problems as well as a 1200kg petrol car.

With some EVs the battery is in the floor, so it has a lower centre of gravity that may help offset the extra weight.

[philehidiot]

My first car was a mini also. Awesome fun and connected you to what you were doing. Cars these days are built to isolate you from the physics of what is going on around you as much as possible meaning people just don't have to develop a feel for what's happening. With that mini you knew exactly what was happening. Uncomforable half the time but it kept you awake. In winter you could never tell whether the numbness was due to the cold or the vibrations.

[DanceswithUnix]

With some EVs the battery is in the floor, so it has a lower centre of gravity that may help offset the extra weight.

True, and compared to the average front wheel drive car the weight distribution is probably better. But still, I can feel the ~80kg kerb weight difference between my old Diesel and my new petrol car in the roundabouts. Mind you, German cars are pretty heavy these days so most people probably wouldn't notice a difference.

My first car was a mini also. Awesome fun and connected you to what you were doing. Cars these days are built to isolate you from the physics of what is going on around you as much as possible meaning people just don't have to develop a feel for what's happening. With that mini you knew exactly what was happening. Uncomforable half the time but it kept you awake. In winter you could never tell whether the numbness was due to the cold or the vibrations.

Not all modern cars are disconnected. I skipped the first couple of generations of electric power steering, the Giulietta has an OK road feel which when you know it is all computer generated driving the steering wheel like a force feedback computer game is pretty impressive. It is one of the things that the "DNA" control messes with, in Natural mode the steering is more assisted with less feedback which is good for town driving and car parks, but I leave it in Dynamic which gives a bit more feel (as well as a more aggressive turbo profile and switching the traction control into limited slip diff emulation).

As for the mini, the numbness was cold *and* vibration, probably helped by the fumes of liquids that were supposed to stay inside the engine but had other ideas. It did teach me a lot about car mechanics, having to repair the thing about every 200 miles.

[philehidiot]

I think it's safe to say any modern car I'm ever likely to drive will be disconnected. I hate driving cars. I'm far more comfortable on a bike.

[wazzickle]

I love countryside driving but hate city & motorway driving and particularly hate aidsy traffic. Really can't deal.