Honda UK Factory - will close in 2021

[Zak33]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKCN1Q71BO

That factory is about 10% of the entire UK car production- it was always going to close for a week in April this year, wisely, while any border disputes about Brexit as sorted...

but this is the potential for a whole factory to close in 3 years time.

If it's true, and it's likely... that's a great loss

Closure date in title changed to the even sadder 2021, from original post of 2022

[Hoonigan]

This is just the start of these kinds of announcements. I sincerely hope that anyone who voted leave is really proud of themselves, they have, as far as I can see, well and truly ruined this country.

[neonplanet40]

While I agree that leaving the EU will form part of reasons why companies are closing up and moving abroad, I feel the bigger issue is uncertainty.

The reality is, the UK will crash out in a matter of weeks. May's intransigence and her inability to work with others is causing a massive amount of uncertainty for businesses. This is not a good thing. Despite a number of years passing, the Tory party is trundling along and unfortunately, its the people at the bottom that will face the brunt of Tory idiocy.

These closures are just the beginning.

[TeePee]

In this case, it's Honda's desire to move all EU production to Japan.

[Ttaskmaster]

This is just the start of these kinds of announcements. I sincerely hope that anyone who voted leave is really proud of themselves, they have, as far as I can see, well and truly ruined this country.

Oh, but we also have an obesity problem in the UK, though, so think of all those fat people who'll lose the pounds once they're carless and have to walk everywhere... and the NHS funds previously used to treat them can be used to house the homeless... and once they have homes, they can get jobs working in all the roles that immigrants used to come and do... and of course, we won't be under the thumb of the unelected Brussels Elite, so all our laws will change back to ones that benefit the people...

For those still wondering from last week, ^that is what a post dripping with sarcasm looks like.

[BobF64]

In this case, it's Honda's desire to move all EU production to Japan.

Which is more of an EU-Japan free trade agreement thing than a Brexit thing.

If Japan no longer has to make cars in the EU to be able to sell them there, they might as well make them in Japan and ship them to the EU instead.

After all, Japanese workers will willingly work themselves to death and because Caucasians are just too damned tall.

[Saracen999]

This is just the start of these kinds of announcements. I sincerely hope that anyone who voted leave is really proud of themselves, they have, as far as I can see, well and truly ruined this country.

Even if this rumour is true, and myt bet is that it is, it is mistaking correlation for causation to assume it's because of Brexit.

Why did Honda come here 38-ish years ago? Because we (the UK) convinced them that the bridgehead they needed to the whole EU was best located here in ths UK.

So, if Brexit was the root cause of this .... why are they relocating production to Japan and not to any one of the other 27?

On the other hand, now that there is a Japan-EU trade deal imminent, they no longer need a bridgehead, so where would we expect a Japanese company to relocate jobs to? Maybe .... Japan, where they'd rather they were anyway?

It is however, a good time to announce such news, with Brexit a convenient whipping post, where people ideologically anti-Brexit are going to leap straight to that conclusion. Whenever they announced this, it was going to provoke a furore, so why not do it now while there's such a peach of a diversionary excuse? A large number of people are going to be so busy bkaming Brexit they won't think to blame Honda.

[TeePee]

Which is more of an EU-Japan free trade agreement thing than a Brexit thing.

If Japan no longer has to make cars in the EU to be able to sell them there, they might as well make them in Japan and ship them to the EU instead.

After all, Japanese workers will willingly work themselves to death and because Caucasians are just too damned tall.

Exactly this. The EU has a new trade deal with a 0% tariff on car imports and exports to Japan (I think the whole 'Tariff bad, mmmmkay?' was discussed a while back). The import tariff was why Honda was building cars in the UK. The result of the trade agreement is that European cars will sell better in Japan. So this is an example of a (mostly pre-Brexit negotiated, 2013-2017) trade agreement, made by the EU, which hurts Britain and helps, mostly, Germany. Certainly can't blame this on Brexit, and some would say this is another good reason to Leave.

[spacein_vader]

Exactly this. The EU has a new trade deal with a 0% tariff on car imports and exports to Japan (I think the whole 'Tariff bad, mmmmkay?' was discussed a while back). The import tariff was why Honda was building cars in the UK. The result of the trade agreement is that European cars will sell better in Japan. So this is an example of a (mostly pre-Brexit negotiated, 2013-2017) trade agreement, made by the EU, which hurts Britain and helps, mostly, Germany. Certainly can't blame this on Brexit, and some would say this is another good reason to Leave.

I can see how shutting the plant hurts Britain (and potentially Belgium, the site of Hondas other 2 EU factories,) but I fail to see how it helps Germany?

[Hoonigan]

Why did Honda come here 38-ish years ago? Because we (the UK) convinced them that the bridgehead they needed to the whole EU was best located here in ths UK.

I believe, and this is pure speculation, that Honda are moving back to Japan because their industry is in a bit of a decline, so this will help to prop that up. Also, the UK is one of the biggest purchasers of Hondas, meaning that a trade deal with us is incredibly important to Honda. I don't know exactly how it's going to work, and nor does just about anyone, but I'd bet that Honda are betting on Japan sorting out some trade deals with the UK, helping to sell cars more cost effectively.

[Ttaskmaster]

I fail to see how it helps Germany?

"The result of the trade agreement is that European cars will sell better in Japan".

Where are German cars made?
Europe.
I can think of five brands that are still made in Germany.

[DanceswithUnix]

It is however, a good time to announce such news, with Brexit a convenient whipping post, where people ideologically anti-Brexit are going to leap straight to that conclusion. Whenever they announced this, it was going to provoke a furore, so why not do it now while there's such a peach of a diversionary excuse? A large number of people are going to be so busy bkaming Brexit they won't think to blame Honda.

Might make it a good time to scare a "rescue package" out of the government to sweeten them to stay?

[spacein_vader]

"The result of the trade agreement is that European cars will sell better in Japan".

Where are German cars made?
Europe.
I can think of five brands that are still made in Germany.

I understand now. I thought you meant that Honda shutting up shop in Swindon would directly benefit Germany.

[Smudger]

So, if Brexit was the root cause of this .... why are they relocating production to Japan and not to any one of the other 27?

Why are they closing this, and not the other factories they have in Europe? There's been a lot of companies closing facilities and shedding jobs that are 'DEFINITELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT, RIGHT?', but whilst not the whole cause, may actually be a large part of the decision making process.

[Ttaskmaster]

I understand now. I thought you meant that Honda shutting up shop in Swindon would directly benefit Germany.

Well, with Honda out of the picture, it opens up as much as 2.5% of market share to the existing (roughly) 37% of market share that VAG and other German brands already enjoy... plus it opens up Junction 5 of the M4 if any brands want their name in red flowers around the roundabout.

So yeah, there is a little bit of potential benefit, but given that other brands will be competing for it too, there's nothing absolutely direct. Nissan were outselling Honda 3:1, with the Juke beating the H-RV 6:1 in 2017.

Guess it depends if the other Japanese brands follow Honda... and we Englandters do seem to love oür Cherman car brandz viz zee stüpidly bright LED headlightzen on zem!

[Saracen999]

Why are they closing this, and not the other factories they have in Europe? There's been a lot of companies closing facilities and shedding jobs that are 'DEFINITELY NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT, RIGHT?', but whilst not the whole cause, may actually be a large part of the decision making process.

Well, not according to Honda.

But I think you're missing my point. You said in that quote that it "may" be part (or "large" part) of the decision, whereas others immediately blamed it on Brexit, with no mention of other factors. My point was, even in the absence of confirmation that it was happening at all, to immefiately leap to blaming Brexit. There certainly are things that can be attributed largely to Brexit, but it's simply not reasonable to just assume that it's Brexit's fault.

So, coming forward in time, Honda have now confirmed the closure, but the statement from Honda's Senior Vice President for Europe is [it is not due to Brexit. It is due to significant changes in global circumstances, and to Honda accelerating their pivot to electric cars. Those global circumstances? Changes re: diesel and it's acceptability, the slowdown in China, the pivot to non-combustion, etc.

It's the same sort of reaction to Nissan. "Oh, Brexit". But what Nissan actually said was that it was due to "several commercial reasons" ..... and that Brexit "was not helping long term planning". I'm sure it wasn't hrlping long-term planning. It's kinda implicit that leaving means renegotiating and/or changing trading relationships. But, given that we've had that uncertainty since Cameron announced the refdrendum, and especially since Remain lost, and most especially since art.50 was triggered nearly two years ago, then making massive, fundamental, strategic decisions a matter of 6 weeks or so before a major part of that uncertainty is clarified would seem perverse. After all, if Brexit uncertainty was the
issue for Honda or Nissan, they could have announced two years ago, or wsited a few more weeks. Who knows, maybe we'll end up with a soft Brexit and stay in the Customs Union ... in which case, by April, all the "uncertainty" will have vanished.

Nobody in their right mind is claiming that there are not negative consequences to Brexit, certainly in the short term. There will be costs. But Brexit is not about the short term. It's about the next several decades, it's about the impact on trade and GDP over decades, and in fact, it's about a lot more than just trade, important though that is.,

I just simply wish there wasn't such a knee-jerk reaction to blame any bad news (and Honda's decision is indisputeably bad news) on Brexit, even before the news is official. I stubbed my big toe - blame Brexit. There was a car crash, damn Brexit. Heavy frost, flaming Brexit.

Can we not have a calmer, rational approach, and by all means attribute negative costs to Brexit, but atribute potential good news to it too .... and in both cases, only where there is an evidence base for it, not wild speculation.