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Thread: speaker advice..

  1. #1
    www.5lab.co.uk
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    speaker advice..

    right, i want to upgrade the sounds.. in me mondie.. i've already got a dehp77 - http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_...nomy_id=25-121 - which i want to put in. i figured the wiring adapter and face plate are pretty obvious things, which brings me to the speakers.

    now i don't really want to hack holes in the doors or re-do the wiring, so i want some 6.5" coax speakers which will run straight off the amp in the HU. i'm not after something super powerful - the people outside my car dont need to listen, only me.. i'd like a 'bit' of bass kick - in my old car i had some cheap sony 6x9s and i was perfectly happy with what they provided : i'm more interested in getting something with decent-ish quality..

    so what do you guys reccomend? i'm willing to buy 2nd hand (or just off ebay) to save a few quid, and i dont have a *definate* budget, but i have to justify everything i spend to myself also, where is good to buy speakers.??

    finally - should i save £20 on buying speaker adapters (to fit 6.5" speakers in the 5x7" hole) and just spend that money on better 5x7 speakers?

    Cheers

    Hugh
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    Since i don't know what you're budget is i'll guess from what you spent on the headunit

    Something like these should be good: http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/prod...b0ca458ba14896

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    hmm.. well all in i wanna spend less than i did on the HU (£200) - the iso adapter and facia thingy will come to £20, and if i'm getting 6.5" speakers i'll have to get a set of speaker adapters.. £20 all in which would leave me with £160 on the actual speakers (max..).. should i get matched pairs, or just upgrade the fronts??

    is there anything i should really look for? i was going to go to hellfrauds on boxing day, see if they have anything in a sale..
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    Boooooom Barakka's Avatar
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    Does your car have just door speakers or are there tweeters higher up in the door as well ?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mock Turtle
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    Mondeos have 5*9s in the doors and same in the rear AFAIK

    5lab, i'd suggest registering on this forum and creating a topic: http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/ they're very helpful and a VERY active forum!

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    just door speakers - 5x7" size.. no tweeters and i dont want to put any in (cba with carving open the dash..)

    i asked on talk audio, just got told to get an amp and a set of components. which i specifically said i didnt want to get.. *rolleyes*
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    HEXUS.social member 99Flake's Avatar
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    JBL do a very nice set of 5x7 speakers that will be a direct replacement for your Mondeo's factory fit. Very good sound and build (I use JBL stuff all around my Focus). All you need to do is take out the door cards, pop out your old ones, screw in the new ones and away you go! They are about £60 and you can get them from Halfords or loads of places online, I wouldn't use adapters unless you have a really nice set of 6.5's that you want to fit, it really isn't worth it otherwise.
    Last edited by 99Flake; 21-12-2005 at 11:07 AM.

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    Boooooom Barakka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5lab
    i asked on talk audio, just got told to get an amp and a set of components. which i specifically said i didnt want to get.. *rolleyes*
    Unfortunately that's what they'll always say as components and an amp will always sound best... but not necessarily what you're after.

    If you just want co-axials then just find a decent set of 5x7's as there's loads to choose from... http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/inde...b0ca458ba14896

    Only thing i'd mention is to watch the power rating on the speakers if you're only using the headunit to power them. Although the unit is rated at 4x50W Peak it's 4x27W RMS and something like the Infinity Kappa's (nice as they are) are rated at 300W Peak - 100W RMS so you would be woefully underpowering them. Better to go for something like the Alpines rated at 40W RMS - needs to be higher on the speakers than the headunit but not massively so.

    Hellfrauds are worth a look in the sales but check them against online prices as they're often a rip off. As 99Flake suggested JBL do some decent 5x7's which I think are rated well for headunit power.

    Something else you could think about if you're taking the door cards off to do the speakers (not sure - some cars you have to) is to get one of the Dynamatt Speaker kits and soundproof the area around the speaker mount to reduce vibrations.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mock Turtle
    “Reeling and Writhing, of course, to begin with, and then the different branches of arithmetic -- Ambition, Distraction, Uglification, and Derision."
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    Yep, dynamat is meant to be very good, just a little bit behind the speakers. I know from reading topics at talkaudio that they'll never recommend speakers that aren't round (Specifially 6*9 in parcel shelves!). Don't know what the real difference is though.

    I'd probably get something with a bit more power so it leaves you room to upgrade in the future by adding an amp in the glovebox or something.

  10. #10
    HEXUS.social member 99Flake's Avatar
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    The reason they don't like 6x9's is because they are normally located on the parcel shelf, this has two problems 1: Sound should come from in front of you not behind, that is how we are designed to hear 2: the sound reflects off of the rear screen and can make some very odd effects. They are a cheap and chearful solution not proper audio. The oval bit has nothing to do with it really, some argue that the cone excursion rate will vary due to not the different distances from the centre that are involved. I don't believe this for a second though, Kef have been quite happily using oval drivers for years in high end hi-fi so it must work.
    You can get componants to fit in the front of you Mondeo, just mount the tweaters behind the grills next to the mid/bass drivers, no need for cutting or anything. They will give a vastly improved sound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 99Flake
    The reason they don't like 6x9's is because they are normally located on the parcel shelf, this has two problems 1: Sound should come from in front of you not behind, that is how we are designed to hear 2: the sound reflects off of the rear screen and can make some very odd effects. They are a cheap and chearful solution not proper audio. The oval bit has nothing to do with it really, some argue that the cone excursion rate will vary due to not the different distances from the centre that are involved. I don't believe this for a second though, Kef have been quite happily using oval drivers for years in high end hi-fi so it must work.
    You can get componants to fit in the front of you Mondeo, just mount the tweaters behind the grills next to the mid/bass drivers, no need for cutting or anything. They will give a vastly improved sound.

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    hmm my old 6x9s gave ok sound (in my ears) but i cant stick with em cos the new car doesnt have a parcel shelf

    why would components, all mounted together down in the footwell, give better quality than coax speakers of the same price? surely theres no logical reason why it'd sound any different (my impression was that components were mainly better because you could position the tweeter at/near ear level).. i've heard that a stand-alone x-over would also suck a bit more power, which given the low output of the amp, i'm not really looking for..

    i'm really not looking to get an amp at any point, because i dont really want to butcher my car.. i know its not that hard to do, but i'd rather have a setup i can whip out easily if/when i need to... the amp in that hu (4x20ish w *real*) is meant to be one of the better amps available in a h.u, so i think i'll be happy once thats all hooked up.. the same hu easily powered 4x 4x6" speakers and a pair of 6x9s in my old car, so i'd be surprised if it really struggled with 4x 5x7" speakers..

    re: dynamat, i think i'll try without for now, and then if i get rattling i can upgrade then. i'm not going to be pushing loads of power thru the speakers though (the music is for me, not the pedestrians in the local area), so i dunno if i'll need them at all..

    i've had a look at the jbl range - they do only 1 set which would fit.. http://www.jbl.com/car/products/prod...at=MEL&ser=GTO -
    they're online for about £45 or in the 'frauds for £60ish.. i'll definately take a look at them on boxing day.. a bit less than my max budget, but if i can take a listen and see what i think i'd be happy..
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    Boooooom Barakka's Avatar
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    The main reasons the *audiophiles* don't like 6x9's is that boy racers buy them and amp them up trying to get a good sound, but the crossovers used on them are dire at best and sound terrible when amped up. The other reason is the bass they give, often amped up 6x9's are combined with a sub in the boot and the huge amounts of bass are all competing for the same air in the boot = bad noise. Anyway, that's academic as you don't want 6x9's Components are mostly better when amped due to the crossover, but when no amp co-axials are fine..

    Something like those JBLs would sound fine, the key is not to go for something that's quoted at 100W+ RMS as the headunit just won't deliver it and underpowered speakers sound cr*p. Getting down to Hellfrauds sounds a good idea, especially as you can hear them playing from a headunit. Might also be worth trying any local ICE specialist as they will also have Sales starting Boxing day.

    The point with the dynamatt is not to soundproof the car to stop the outside world hearing it, if you had a 2000W system then you would of course be dynamatting the doors, floors, boot etc etc. Have a look at the door kit http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/prod...b0ca458ba14896 the point of this is to simply deaden the vibrations where the speakers are mounted to the body. This will not make a massive difference, but hey it's £10 ! As you're not installing a sub and amp you are relying on these speakers to provide all the bass for the system, so when you do turn it up a bit the bit of deadening around the speaker could make a big difference.. is only a thought
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mock Turtle
    “Reeling and Writhing, of course, to begin with, and then the different branches of arithmetic -- Ambition, Distraction, Uglification, and Derision."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barakka
    The main reasons the *audiophiles* don't like 6x9's is that boy racers buy them and amp them up trying to get a good sound, but the crossovers used on them are dire at best and sound terrible when amped up. The other reason is the bass they give, often amped up 6x9's are combined with a sub in the boot and the huge amounts of bass are all competing for the same air in the boot = bad noise. Anyway, that's academic as you don't want 6x9's Components are mostly better when amped due to the crossover, but when no amp co-axials are fine..
    am i being dumb?? surely co-axials have some sort of cross-over built in (albeit of lower quality) so that the tweeter cone doesnt deal with all that bass?? if a set of components (ie, bass/mid speaker + crossover + tweeter) is the same price as a coax speaker, surely the bits in each are of comparible quality??
    Quote Originally Posted by barakka

    Something like those JBLs would sound fine, the key is not to go for something that's quoted at 100W+ RMS as the headunit just won't deliver it and underpowered speakers sound cr*p. Getting down to Hellfrauds sounds a good idea, especially as you can hear them playing from a headunit. Might also be worth trying any local ICE specialist as they will also have Sales starting Boxing day.

    The point with the dynamatt is not to soundproof the car to stop the outside world hearing it, if you had a 2000W system then you would of course be dynamatting the doors, floors, boot etc etc. Have a look at the door kit http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/prod...b0ca458ba14896 the point of this is to simply deaden the vibrations where the speakers are mounted to the body. This will not make a massive difference, but hey it's £10 ! As you're not installing a sub and amp you are relying on these speakers to provide all the bass for the system, so when you do turn it up a bit the bit of deadening around the speaker could make a big difference.. is only a thought
    yeah agreed.. my thoughts were that because i'd not have my tunes up particularly loud, i'd not need dynamat (cos i'd not be getting vibrations).. the way you've put it.. maybe i do need some.. i think i'll wait eitehr way, and apply retrospectively if i feel i'm getting vibrations..

    ta again for the help.. i dont know of any ice specialists near exeter (where i am for xmas) but theres one near here (brighton) that looks pretty good, should my boxing day hunt fail me..
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    You don't need dynamat, its just that it could improve the quality a little bit. Probably not worth it on your budget

    The idea with the components in the footwells is that they dont point out at 90 degrees to the floor, they point towards the driver in custom 'pods'. This is meant to give better imaging. Not worth your time and effort let alone money!

    99flake, about your parcel shelf comments we used to have a rover 75 saloon which had a parcel shelf (Although it was fixed) and it housed a factory fit harmon kardon system. Was bolted on to the bottom of the shelf/sides of boot and had 2 free air subs going to one grill and 2 amps. Don't know if this is different to 6*9 as its bass only but it sounded OK. I'd say it was very boomy but it was alright in the front, added the needed bass and made it very warm sounding

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    HEXUS.social member 99Flake's Avatar
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    It would add bass and sound fine from the front. Bass is (to an extent) non directional, i.e the ear cannot determine easily where the sound is coming from, therefore the effects of it being behind you are not so severe (hence why subs can go in boots). However mid and treble is directional, the higher the frequency the easier it is to pinpoint and it is more easily deflected by objects. It is here that the problems with 6x9's occur. Manufacturers will use the rear shelf for speakers as it is just wasted space, it allows them to put large impressive speakers in where a door cannot take them. There are exceptions i.e Lexus who really know how to put a system in. My Dad had one years ago, door mounted components with the tweaters up higher, in the front the tweaters were on the inside of the wingmirrors. There was then a 10" sub on the parcel shelf. Sounded awsome, this is the way it should be done. As I said using the parcel shelf gives a cheap and easy way out to incorporate large bassy speakers.

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