£9000 to spend on >grp 16 hot hatch, what would you go for?

[herulach]

I like this - first you suggest a 20 year old car, then dismiss the modern Alfa as it might not be reliable...

To be fair, given my experience with FIATs, id wager a 20 year old capri would be more reliable

[Taz]

How about one of those really fast Clio's? I'm not generally a fan of French cars and I know you said that you prefer Japanese or German. The RenaultSport Clio 172 does 0-60MPH in 6.8 seconds and can top 130MPH, plus you still get over 35MPG.

[5lab]

fiat coupe turbo? completely unknown, 220 bhp (iirc) stock. ouch.

[Rack]

A3 1.9TDi 130

I have one of these, the quattro, it's really great. Nice sporty feel (suspension and seats), heaps of low-down torque to pull away at 1800rpm, and keeps it up to the red-line at 5000 (not that I go that high normally). Audi are bloody expensive if you take them to the dealer, but go somewhere 'approved' and it's not so bad.

Quattro is vey nice for handling in wet/slippery conditions, but don't stress the clutch too much as it'll be the first thing to go if you drop it hard all the time

[dangel]

The Fabia's are quick don't get me wrong, but it's all 'backside dyno' - torque feels a hell of a lot quicker than it actually is. They're very quick on corner exit though, the low down response is superb and will catapult you off corners, but in a straight line they lack the rev range to really scream away.

The VRs is also bloody heavy for it's size - on another thread i looked up the specs and found that it weighs the same as a Leon Cupra, which is in the size class above!

[Fox]

There is one achingly obvious choice here but unfortunately it falls foul of your requirement that it must not be French.

Even so, try one anyway. The French just.. DO hot hatches, argueably better than anyone else.

And, for many, the best hot hatch ever is the Renaultsport Clio 172/182. You'll get a top example for £9000 and as far as pure hot hatch is concerned, you'll find it virtually impossible to do any better.

Yes, it'll rattle. Yes, its French, but surely thats the point? Stuff like the Golf and Fabia etc are too refined to give that proper hot hatch feel and although the Fabi's 130bhp TDI engine is a great acheivement it's never going to give you the thrill that booting a 182 over your favourite B road is.

Go and test drive one, properly. You'll be hooked. I hate small cars and hate Renaults and even I had to acknowledge that the Clio 172/182 is a blinding car.

[doll]

The VRs is also bloody heavy for it's size - on another thread i looked up the specs and found that it weighs the same as a Leon Cupra, which is in the size class above!

Nope not true.

The Fabia hatch is quoted between 1,090 and 1,315kg's, including 3 passengers and luggage in the Fabia brochure.

[herulach]

There is one achingly obvious choice here but unfortunately it falls foul of your requirement that it must not be French.

Even so, try one anyway. The French just.. DO hot hatches, argueably better than anyone else.

And, for many, the best hot hatch ever is the Renaultsport Clio 172/182. You'll get a top example for £9000 and as far as pure hot hatch is concerned, you'll find it virtually impossible to do any better.

Yes, it'll rattle. Yes, its French, but surely thats the point? Stuff like the Golf and Fabia etc are too refined to give that proper hot hatch feel and although the Fabi's 130bhp TDI engine is a great acheivement it's never going to give you the thrill that booting a 182 over your favourite B road is.

Go and test drive one, properly. You'll be hooked. I hate small cars and hate Renaults and even I had to acknowledge that the Clio 172/182 is a blinding car.

Damn, fox you feeling ok? I was expecting you to say ST-24.

[Moby-Dick]

306 Rallye (GTI-6 with no equipment)

Now while they take some learning to drive, they ARE the daddy.

of get a xsara VtS for half the price

[Fidley]

Cheers for the all suggestions so far. I'll look into the clio, A3! But no-one's commented on the ibiza cupra/ cupra r. They have the same engine as the leon but in a smaller and, imo, better looking package!



Thoughts?

[dangel]

Cheers for the all suggestions so far. I'll look into the clio, A3! But no-one's commented on the ibiza cupra/ cupra r. They have the same engine as the leon but in a smaller and, imo, better looking package! Thoughts?

Personally i prefered the last-model ibiza for looks, and the interior on the current one leaves something to be desired (fuel guage goes the wrong way/nasty dash). If you do go for an old-model one then get the Cupra _not_ the Cupra R as it was a better package. Most have been modded - suspension/brakes/exhaust are common and chipping (software upgrade) is almost guaranteed. Nothing wrong with any of them - so long as they were done by credible modifiers and nothing feels rattly/loose on the car. They go like stink, and a chipped car typically puts out 210bhp+ with torque to match. Check gearbox carefully for feel, as the 5 speed box isn't nearly as strong as the six-speed on the Leon.

If you do look the a new model, much the same rules apply. The exception is the diesel (sport/cupra) which, when chipped, will usually knacker it's clutch if misused - look for clutch slip. The cupra in current guise is overpriced and not that much fun - many people went for the 130bhp diesel and chipped it (plus suspension mods).

Oh one thing to add - be VERY wary of induction systems - many, many of these will knacker the MAF!

[dangel]

Nope not true.

The Fabia hatch is quoted between 1,090 and 1,315kg's, including 3 passengers and luggage in the Fabia brochure.

Their website quotes 1315kg for the VRs as kerbweight.. First I've heard manu's quoting figures for loaded cars - usually it's done with fuel but 3 people/luggage of indeterminate weight?

Edit: just downloaed the brochure - whoops - yup i see it now.. Weird!

Edit 2: Read this: http://www.briskoda.net/forums/fabia...ghlight=weight
Seems like it's a brochure error, so yes, it's as heavy as the leon!

[atrull]

Certainly wouldn't buy a new car

do you really want a hot hatch or are you more interested in a sporty car ?

[Grey M@a]

FIAT (Fix It Again Tomorrow) engine = butter

nasty cars, will always be under the bonnet working on something. Try the clio 172/182 if you want hot hatch, speed/nippy and 9k and less.

[[GSV]Trig]

306 Rallye (GTI-6 with no equipment)

Or the S16, if you can find one...

[badass]

Or the S16, if you can find one...

Cr@p car. Slow with a dodgy engine.
Never buy the softer, lesser brother.