Getting back to some decent kit

[Clingy]

I have about £1000 (tops say £1200) to "waste" on replacing hifi/home cinema.

Before the kids (16years ago) I kept a fairly decent setup, but now it's degenerated somewhat and along with some rather unwise purchases I have a mess. I'll keep my half decent Sony CD player and my recently purchased Toshiba budget DVD, but the rest will go (including some 25 year old very expensive speakers).

So I need multi channel amplifier/receiver and surround speakers. First problem is DAB. I have been putting off buying a Tuner for years because this whole digital radio thing confused me. I cannot find a moderately priced Home Cinema Receiver with DAB, so if DAB is important I'd need to get an Amplifier and a DAB/FM hybrid Tuner. Next issue is, do I go for functionality or music ability? So do I buy a NAD or a Denon/Yamaha. This is a tough one. I dont really want to compromise on music quality, but am I going to regret missing a particular function? Damned if I do and Damned if I dont me thinks.

Speaker wise, I can't see anthing better than a AE Evo 3b package for around £650. I am surprised at how little choice there is in this priice range.

Anyways, I'd appreciate some relevant thoughts and/or experiences to help me decide.

[kushtibari]

Went through the same process last year for the same reasons. I've initially gone for a decentish stereo system (NAD CD and amp), Project Debut turntable and bought Quad 11L speakers. I've run my 'budget Toshiba DVD player' and Nokia ondigital box through the amp as well so that I've got a receiver of sorts and fairly decent (stereo) movie sound. I don't think DAB is hugely important. Next upgrade path is tricky because I want to swap to surround sound while keeping good stereo. How much are you budgeting for the amp?

[Clingy]

Well, if I can get the speakers for £650 it leaves around £500 for amp/tuner/receiver. So that would equate to either :-

1) Sony DAB/FM tuner and a Yamaha DXP-AX750E OR
2) Denon 2805 Receiver
3) Yamaha RXV1500 Receiver
4) NAD T753AV Receiver

From the little I have read so far, NAD would be the choice for good stereo.

[Zak33]

you need peeps like Howard, Rave etc...I'll shout them.

But I WOULD be tempted (from my own experiences) to say

MUSIC OR FILM....cos a good surround sound film experience is often different to music. I know its obvious and it getsstateda lot, but BOOM BOOM rocket launchers and mine fields exploding sounds totally different to the really fine nuances of Led Zepplin. When you hear Baby I'm gonna Leave ya on real amps with real speakers (and real cable...../ducks) you find soul you didnt know was there.

and Rambo aint the same dude!

[Howard]

Yamaha amplifiers are excellent, but so are other brands like Pioneer, Marantz, etc. They all (while being excellent) have different sound characteristics, so I'd advise listening before you buy. Marantz are probably more capable in music applications than Yamaha, for example. My brother's Yamaha (RXV640 or something) is very good with surround sound but IMHO sounds a tad soft. However from the list above I'd go for the Denon off-hand. They're superb.

NAD receivers are less capable than the above however, more suited to stereo applications.

I myself am most likely going to be purchasing a Marantz SR5400OSE receiver in a month or so based on reading reviews and analysing how it sounds. I ought to get a demo, but I don't think it's worth it for my kit


Speaker-wise, the AEs are a fine choice. ALso consider a Monitor Audio package (I'm not biased because I own some, honest!) and other brands such as Kef (I like them, although some people don't)

The tuner is up to you as I don't know much about them, and the DVD player ought to be fine if it's a Toshiba. What model is it?

[unrealrocks]

I have a Denon (1604) and although I am happy - I have heard better ...

Denon have this thing about putting very few digital inputs into all of there decoders compared with people like Yamaha. If you have DVD player, DAB, and say PC ... your may not have any more spaces free.

DAB tuner wise I would suggest you look at the Pure and the CambridgeAudio IZUR range, there both good tuners although the Pure one is the one all the magazines go for We have one in our kitchen and it does sound nice although the digital output is better than the analogue output.

Are you going to listen to more stereo/music sources than surround. I had that problem and thought I'd buy a decoder anyway - big mistake. Stereo amps just don't sound the same as decoders (unless there the very expensive discreet channel ones - normally the HUGE ones that are about 40Kg). If you do like listening to alot of stereo stuff, consider using the decoder as a preamp for your front stereo pair - then buy a seperate power amp or even integrated to drive your front speakers to keep that nice sound for music

Speaker wise - I'm a great fan of Wharfedale but all the above mentioned speakers are great. the AE setup have been getting the awards for the last few years now, I auditioned a set a while back ... they are really nice for movies (although I prefer the bigger subs so you have a slight gap around 60Hz but can get the real thump for action movies), although there not ideal for music - the sub especially is more of a cinema sub than a music sub (not that you should have it switched on anyway while your listening to music).

[kushtibari]

I myself am most likely going to be purchasing a Marantz SR5400OSE receiver in a month or so based on reading reviews and analysing how it sounds. I ought to get a demo, but I don't think it's worth it for my kit

I think its important to listen to all the choices before handing over your hard earned. Sometimes a review can be great but you might prefer a different sound when you hear it in the flesh. Most decent shops will given you a demo of your choice of kit. Sevenoaks were decent with me and Peter Tyson at Carlisle are always spot on. As Zak says the big choice is whats No1, stereo or surround. By all accounts the NAD is good musically and doesn't do a bad job of surround, whereas the others concentrate on surround first and music second. If you just watch the odd film but listen to music every day I'd be inclined to go with the musical option. To get something thats great with both you'd end up paying a fortune for Arcam or the like.

[Rave]

Zak prodded me to come in here and pontificate. TBH though I'm really not that hot on product recommendations for AV gear, especially not speakers. I'll make some general points though.

1. What's happening to the old stuff? If those speakers were expensive 25 years ago, see if they have a cult following, could be worth $$.

2. If you want DAB, then why not just buy the cheapest standalone DAB recorder you can find which has a digital output (like this one?) and then plug it into a digital input on the amp. Then as long as it can actually get a signal, the quality of the tuner is irrelevant, since the decoding is being done by the amp. You can use the reciever's built in tuner for FM if you need to.

3. As recommended by everyone else, get a listen to some different kit- then keep an open mind. Preconceptions are the enemy of good listening. As an example, I personally am pretty sure that I can't hear any difference between my old and uber-cheap AV reciever and my supposedly much better Musical Fidelity amp in stereo. Granted the MF is way more powerful and can create ear and speaker damaging volume with the volume control less than halfway from maximum, but with the volumes set to the same level I can't hear a difference. In fact the only components I can reliably differentiate in listening tests are speakers and headphones. If you go in to a listening test having believed the other people in this thread who say that AV recievers aren't as good in stereo as straight two channel amps, then you're likely to hear a difference even where there actually may not be one. You may be able to hear a difference better than me, but don't assume you will. The amplifier componentry in a modern £500 reciever is likely to be pretty damn good.

4. If you're spending £500 on a reciever then see if you can find one of the ones that uses a microphone to set its levels and delays automatically. Very convenient, and likely to do a much better job than you could on your own. I'm pretty sure that there are amp in this price range that have this feature, I seem to recall seeing a Yamaha that does it. EDIT: I see the Yamaha AX750 has this

5. My usual point: when the salesman tries to flog you some expensive cables, tell them politely but firmly you're not interested;p.

Sorry if any or all of that was teaching granny to suck eggs.

Rich :¬)

[Alex]

I did a bit of shopping for new AV speaker recently, so this is what I found...

If you can get a listen then listen to the KEF Q1s as speakers, with the Qcompacts and Q9c or Q6c. Pair that lot with a decent subwoofer and you have quite a decent system. I shopped around a bit and that is what I came up with as the best setup, beating, to my ears, the Monitor Audio Bronze B2 AV, B4 AV, and the Evo 3B setups by quite a bit. Quite like the Mordaunt Short speakers as well, the 914s are quite nice. I also liked the B&W DM601s.

I listened to 3 amps, the Yamaha 750, the Pioneer 912 (bought 2nd hand, now superseeded by the 914 I believe) and the Cambridge Audio 540R. There was, to my ears, next to no difference in audio ability between the Cambridge Audio and the Yamaha, other than the Yamaha's features, but auto setup you only really use once, and component video upconversion is only useful if you'd use it, obviously.

Only problem is that Richer Sounds (the only supplier of Cambridge Audio stuff) don't seem to do demos of equipment, so you can't really listen before you buy. You really should listen before you buy, as everyone else has said.

[Howard]

I've bitten the bullet and ordered a Marantz SR5400OSE. I' m confident it'll be a nice upgrade from my current amp

More details will follow when it arrives

[Rave]

Richer Sounds have always been happy to give me a demo, I'm not sure why you got that impression Alex. TBH the quality of the service you get from them does seem to be entirely dependent on the shop staff; the nearest one to me is staffed by muppets too unfortunately.

Rich :¬)

[Alex]

The one nearest me doesn't have a demo room unfortunately They say you can bring something back unconditionally if you don't like it, but only for store credit

[Clingy]

Thank you guys!!!

Anyone who knows me will know that I will agonise over decisions like this for ages.

Of course some of you have hit the nail on the head. Music or films? Well both really. At the moment I listen to loads of incredibly diverse music and I watch very few films. But then I was hoping that this new set-up may change that? The NAD has the edge musically it appears but is missing some (maybe) important features. I like the idea of the Denon's 2nd room speakers running a separate source (if I understood correctly). But in the end it may be down to whether I want DAB or not.

Well next step is to arrange some comparative listening. I need to find somewhere that has Denon, NAD and Yamaha to demo. Was interesting to hear Alex talk about speakers. I'll try and get to listen to some KEF, MS and MA as well as the AE.

ANd if anyone is interested in some "antique" B&W speakers and Arcam Amp point them in my direction.

Edit - Oh yeah and the great speaker cable debate. Like those ppl that turn Christian when they get old, I hedge my bets and go for well reviewed budget cable.

[unrealrocks]

Which B&W speakers - I may be interested?

[schmunk]

ANd if anyone is interested in some "antique" B&W speakers and Arcam Amp point them in my direction.

I may be interested - what are they and how much do you want?

[schmunk]

Which B&W speakers - I may be interested?

I may be interested - what are they and how much do you want?

jinx