4K monitors going cheap - what's the catch?

[jim]

I'll assume that this includes 4K /as in your thread you have expressed your opinion on a 28 inch monitor/ so I guess I'll just have to see for myself.

Yes, I'm only gaming at 4K right now.

Lots of 4k monitors seem to have a little small print thing. They might say "60Hz", but check carefully - that is likely to be only 60Hz when using lower resolutions, but cuts to just 30Hz for 4k gaming.

HDMI limits any of these monitors to 30Hz, but Displayport will happily run 4K@60Hz. The exception, as noted, is the Dell P2815Q which for reasons that I can't fathom can only handle 30Hz.

The info is here: http://forums.hexus.net/displays-mon...k-monitor.html

[explorer]

Yes, I'm only gaming at 4K right now.

Can you adjust the resolution to 4K from in-game settings?
Or the PC is upscalling them?

[jim]

In game

[explorer]

In game

Cheers,
that pushes the things well toward 4K then.

[KeyboardDemon]

I've not yet come across a game that won't run at 4K. Years ago when I had a 2048*1152 monitor, games would scale to that as well - they tend to be fairly dynamic.

Tiny icons and letters is a bit of a conundrum. Simply put, you have two options:

1) Embrace it. Yes, it's small, but I can still read it just fine. 1080p on 22" looks like Fisher Price monitor to me now, by comparison, because everything is huge. This means that you get bucketloads of usable space - because it's effectively four 1080p panels. I can put two entire webpages side by side and read them top to bottom, which is great.

2) Use DPI scaling. This means that UI elements are enlarged to whatever size you like, but they're smoother because there are more pixels available. Windows 8.1 by default adjusted the DPI scaling so that the icon sizes etc were the same on my 1080p and my 4K monitors, so it's easy to do. However, there are two downsides: firstly, DPI scaling doesn't work in a lot of software, so it just screws up the GUI (you'll see a lot of complaints about this on the web). Secondly, I don't see the point in buying a 4K monitor if you then blow up all the text to be the same as it would look on a 27" 2560*1440 monitor. I bought this monitor because it would fit mountains of text on one screen.

I have been torn between 4k and 2560x1440 displays and it is on the issue of how it would be to live with a 4k screen when I'm doing anything other than gaming, my main concern was that I wouldn't be able to cope with the smaller text and icons, however reading about your experiences has kind of started to get me thinking that a 4k screen with my GTX 780 Ti wouldn't be too bad, I should get decent enough frame rates and I can always reduce quality where frame rates are unacceptable.

The main thing that I am stuck on now is that I have just shown the Asus PG278Q and Acer 4k2k XB280HK to three of my friends, two of them have said they would go for the Acer and one of them said that he can't see a reason to move from his 24" 1920x1080 Benq monitor. This does mean that I will have to wait another 8 weeks before I can get the new monitor I have been putting off getting for close to a 9 months already, but then if I got the wrong monitor how gutted would I feel when I realise once I've passed the point of no return?

None of them think it matters about the screens being TN panels over IPS screens, the two in favour both pointed out that both screens have 8 bit TN screens instead of 6 bit and both have said that I could run the screen at a lower resolution for non gaming activities and then game at 4k. Have you tried doing that jim? If so, how did that work for you?

[jim]

I have been torn between 4k and 2560x1440 displays and it is on the issue of how it would be to live with a 4k screen when I'm doing anything other than gaming, my main concern was that I wouldn't be able to cope with the smaller text and icons, however reading about your experiences has kind of started to get me thinking that a 4k screen with my GTX 780 Ti wouldn't be too bad, I should get decent enough frame rates and I can always reduce quality where frame rates are unacceptable.

The main thing that I am stuck on now is that I have just shown the Asus PG278Q and Acer 4k2k XB280HK to three of my friends, two of them have said they would go for the Acer and one of them said that he can't see a reason to move from his 24" 1920x1080 Benq monitor. This does mean that I will have to wait another 8 weeks before I can get the new monitor I have been putting off getting for close to a 9 months already, but then if I got the wrong monitor how gutted would I feel when I realise once I've passed the point of no return?

None of them think it matters about the screens being TN panels over IPS screens, the two in favour both pointed out that both screens have 8 bit TN screens instead of 6 bit and both have said that I could run the screen at a lower resolution for non gaming activities and then game at 4k. Have you tried doing that jim? If so, how did that work for you?

I haven't tried that, no. I guess if you wanted to, you could run at 1080p and it would look fine as it would scale properly, i.e. 4 pixels to every 1 - obviously though, a 1080p 28" screen would have pretty large pixels. I wouldn't want to run at any other resolution and have weird scaling.

I actually found the DPI setting to work quite well, if you wanted larger text, and that's the better solution, technologically speaking. But not all software is compatible - I only tried with Windows, IE, Chrome, Word etc which were all fine.

There is no question that the text is small, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people found it unusable, but I've always been comfortable reading small text and gambled that I wouldn't care. And if it was unusable, I would've returned under DSR.

My gut feeling is that it's not worth buying it to run at non-native res, as you'd be losing pixels compared to 2560*1440 on the desktop (and those extra pixels are great), and it's not worth buying it to run at high DPI because the consensus seems to be that software support isn't there. And the only way you'll know whether you'd cope with the small text is to try it out in person - unless a local store will demo, I guess that means DSR.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The first sub $1000 IPS 4K display will be out in a few months time:

http://www.techpowerup.com/201513/as...-computex.html

In addition to the 32-inch ProArt PA328Q ASUS has brought to Computex 2014 another 'prosumer' oriented UHD (3840 x 2160) monitor, the 27-inch PB279Q. Seen below, this upcoming model features a 'super slim' 9 mm bezel, 100% sRGB coverage, 178/178-degree viewing angles, a 5 ms (GTG) response time, 300 cd/m2 brightness, and one DisplayPort 1.2, one mini DisplayPort and four HDMI 1.4 inputs.

It also is an 8+2 bit panel meaning it is extended gamut too.

So it should be around the £700 mark maybe even £600,although Asus can treat its UK customers as mugs though,so might charge more.

So that means in the next year we should start seeing 4K IPS monitors closer to £500.

[Zak33]

This is one of the best/most interesting threads for ages.

Normally it's "shallI upgrade my CPU? " or "which graphics card" etc

but this is a proper dilema and it will face thousads of us soon

I have never yet owned a 1920 x1080 because while cheap.. I dont watch HD films on my PC. But I do lots of work and plenty gaming.. so I ended up with 2 1680x1050 monitors and at one time 3 of them on my AMD card

I really REALLY wanted a 1920 x1200 very long ago .. I got two of my mates to get them when upgrading from 1280x1024 screens...many years ago and I missed the boat.. and the prices frankly weren't then worth it.

So.. still sat with 1680x1050 x 2 which is second nature. I often rotate one to Portrait too. Works well

But... a LONG WHILE ago I was looking at a getting a 2560x1440
http://forums.hexus.net/displays-mon...y-pc-desk.html

two years ago, that was..... TWO YEARS.. and while my PC has changed by monitors still haven't


And here we are.. with a proper dilema now.. for lots of people....

SHALL WE HAVE ONE MAMMOTH RES screen, close in front, on a fairly cheap technology?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

TBH,Zak the 4K monitors are undergoing massive price and technology changes ATM,and now we will soon have £600 to £700 monitors using 8+2 bit IPS panels.

So in the next year or so we will see improved technology and lower costs - look how far things have changed over the last year with the 4K monitors.

The TN versions might start hitting closer to £300 and the IPS ones closer to £500. Look at how far the prices for AH-IPS monitors above 24" have dropped?

The other thing is the newer version of displayport which will support adaptive v-sync. 4K monitors with this would be better for gaming too than current ones.

[KeyboardDemon]

@Zak33: It really is a proper dilemma, at first I thought that the ROG Swift would be ideal for me, G-Sync support, with great specs, but now having read about jim's experiences with his 4k monitor and seen how 4k screens are definitely the better value option I find myself more confused than ever.

The Acer was always my second choice monitor as it has G-Sync support and even though it is only a 60hz display I think it would give me the performance I want from a 4k monitor, my GPU won't exactly stretch to even 60fps in most games at that rez and where it falls short the G-Sync would keep the playback smooth.

Then there is the issue of FreeSync and the new emerging Display Port standards, if this does the same job that G-Sync does why would I want to pay extra for something that I can get for free? Well, of course I wouldn't want to do that.

Finally there is the panel technology, and as I've already stated, I won't eliminate a screen that delivers all the specs I'm looking for simply because it uses a panel technology of one type when there is an emerging technology that offers better features in one respect but then falls short in another. I'm not going to choose IPS or similar just because it is IPS and I won't be choosing TN because it is TN, what I want is a monitor with a fast refresh rate, minimum 8 bit display and a high resolution. I also wanted G-Sync, but until I know more about FreeSync I think it makes sense to cancel my ROG Swift order and try and be more patient.

If in the meantime a 4k IPS screen that can run 60 to 120hz and has support for FreeSync is released and I have a GPU that is capable of supporting the FreeSync standards then I would put that on my short list. At that time if it proved to be the most suitable monitor for me but at a higher price than other monitors on the market I would still buy that as I would well expect it to last five years or more.

Bearing in mind that I am thinking about five years of usage, I think my concerns over the resolution being too high for me to use the monitor are probably unfounded and at worst only a short term concern, I think we only need to look back as far as Windows XP and the introduction of 1920x1080 monitors to see how quickly the resolution issue was dealt with, and I would expect software developers to respond to their customer's requirements should they see a big uptake in 4k or higher resolution screens.

*** edit ***

I have now cancelled my ROG Swift monitor order from Scan. I might place a pre-order for the Acer, I haven't decided on that yet, given that it is a pre-order I know I can cancel it before it gets dispatched. I am starting to find what I thought was a simple process to actually be quite stressfull!

[jim]

Agreed, Zak. Personally, I think this is one of the most exciting things that's happened in desktop computing for years. It takes a lot for me to be an early adopter!

I mean, CPUs, RAM, GPUs etc, all make a difference, but somewhat in the background. Even SSDs, despite being night and day, are still providing the same ultimate service, just a bit quicker.

Screens on the other hand, are the main interface through which you interact with a PC. Even at 1080p, it always felt a bit like peering through a letterbox, and we had the same standards for absolutely years. 2560*1600 was the top dog for a ridiculously long time, and it always cost about £1k.

Now, suddenly, the whole market has been blown apart... it's exciting stuff.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

That is probably bacause of the phone,tablet,TV and hybrid laptop market. Most of the display investment has been for them,especially in bringing down the cost of various panel technologies and pushing higher and higher pixel densities at lower and lower costs. Its naturally had a follow on the desktop display market.

[explorer]

As for the dilemma between 2560x1440 vs 4K
2560x1440 is IPS or VA which is supposed to be better technology versus TN quality wise /better colour rendition, better viewing angle/.
On the other side 4K TN has higher resolution so it is quality improvement, too.
So to summarize my thoughts it is a compromise between one quality and another one and that is what makes it hard to decide.

Finally may I ask why do you guys talk about 8+2 bits and the manufacturers state 10 bit? What is the difference and are they cutting corners somewhere?

[Agent]

HDMI limits any of these monitors to 30Hz, but Displayport will happily run 4K@60Hz. The exception, as noted, is the Dell P2815Q which for reasons that I can't fathom can only handle 30Hz.

It's because internally, the Dell only really supports HDMI. There is a converter on the DisplayPort that does the LVDS / TMDS conversion so you can use DP with it.

Madness.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

As for the dilemma between 2560x1440 vs 4K
2560x1440 is IPS or VA which is supposed to be better technology versus TN quality wise /better colour rendition, better viewing angle/.
On the other side 4K TN has higher resolution so it is quality improvement, too.
So to summarize my thoughts it is a compromise between one quality and another one and that is what makes it hard to decide.

Finally may I ask why do you guys talk about 8+2 bits and the manufacturers state 10 bit? What is the difference and are they cutting corners somewhere?

8+2 bit means its a 8 bit panel with dithering to give 10 bit colour - I don't think there are any native 10 bit panels for consumer usage ATM.

However,look at that Asus 4K monitor being released this year at under $1000. It is IPS and 4K. I suspect in the next year,we might even see both TN and IPS 4K screens start dropping in price as production starts ramping up.

[explorer]

8+2 bit means its a 8 bit panel with dithering to give 10 bit colour - I don't think there are any native 10 bit panels for consumer usage ATM.

However,look at that Asus 4K monitor being released this year at under $1000. It is IPS and 4K. I suspect in the next year,we might even see both TN and IPS 4K screens start dropping in price as production starts ramping up.

Well if it is IPS and 1ms I think that 100ish pounds difference with AOC U2868PQU which is TN could be justified. I was thinking about AOC but when I think now it might be a better idea to go for Asus and to get all the qualities/IPS and 4K/ with a 100ish pound increase. After all this monitor should be future proof for at least 5 years I believe.