Does DRM devalue a PC gaming purchases to you?

[Gunbuster]

Case and Point.

I am an ex-PC gamer gone Console. I still have Tomb Raider from Diamond Monster (Voodoo1) days. I still whack on UT1 now and then.

Being able to pick up one of my old games and give it a go again means a fare amount to me. Especially if I could just run it in the past (HL2) and now have a relative beast of a system.

One game made me look to get back into PC gaming and that was Mass Effect. I don't currently own a 360 and spending £200ish just to play a game seemed a waste, so when I heard there was a PC version I was ready with my £30 just as soon as it was going to be released. I heard about the awful dialing home DRM and was less than impressed. So when EA back peddled sighed with relief and kept it on my to buy on release list. Then I found out that you had 3 activations then you have to phone up to install it each time after. What the hell?

I refuse to buy a gimped version like this at full price. To me if you want to sell me something at full price, sell me the full product. I refuse to pirate it to make a point, as who listens to pirates?
So I will pick it up in the future, but when it has hit the £10-15 bracket, maybe less. They devalued their product, but didn't devalue the price so stuff them.

We are in a sorry state of affairs when, ignoring cost, the pirater gets a better deal than the legit customer.

So is a DRM'd PC game (or licenses *shiver* to play a game) worth less than a no questions asked full copy to you?

[mccheese]

I think that the only way to keep the "PC Exclusive" titles alive is to have some sort of validation check every time you run a game. Maybe download a licence that allows for 30 days of play before renewal is required and keeping some content online only would help. PC games are far too easy to pirate, all you have to do is type "mass effect download" into Google and unsurprisingly, one of the top results is a torrent site! Games are generally expensive to produce (Crisis reported to of cost $22 million dollars) so i'm all for a bit of DRM, especially if it means I don't need to dig out the DVD just to play the game!

[badass]

Yes it does devalue a game. Unfortunately, with the ease of copying discs and circumventing that kind of protection, what else can they do?
Maybe a USB dongle - plug it in to play the game. If it gets damaged, send it back to the publisher to get it replaced for a max of £5 inc P&P
Food for thought.

[directhex]

what devalues things more for me is that my pc is essentially useless for new games, and for the money it'd cost me to make it modern, i could buy a console and stack of games

[Gunbuster]

See if you add benefits do using DRM like say Steam, where I never have to worry about a scratched disc, I can stomach it. When you have all the negatives of DRM and traditional DVD sales, but Pirates don't how can you not feel hard done by?

[aidanjt]

See if you add benefits do using DRM like say Steam, where I never have to worry about a scratched disc, I can stomach it. When you have all the negatives of DRM and traditional DVD sales, but Pirates don't how can you not feel hard done by?

++

And I'd rather not have my hammer spout legs and run off to tell the cops every time I use it for purposes other than hammering in a nail. My PC is my own, I use it how I see fit, not some jackass software publisher.

[Whiternoise]

Steam has it right, in my opinion. It's DRM but good DRM.

You can install as much as you want, you don't need to worry about losing the discs, license keys, scratched discs and so forth. It doesn't matter if you change PC either.

The only caveat is the required internet connection, but i'm happy to sacrifice that.

What i DO object to is if i have to internet validate constantly when i actually own the disc. That's just stupid.

[Lucio]

DRM is an inconvience for the licensee of the game (I hestitate to use owner since you never actually own software) designed to benefit the creator of the game and ensure that the license terms are enforced.

We've ended up at this place because quite frankly, people can't be trusted to follow the laws and even if you are one of the ones who does, you cannot deny that it happens.

[aidanjt]

We've ended up at this place because quite frankly, people can't be trusted to follow the laws and even if you are one of the ones who does, you cannot deny that it happens.

People can't be trusted with knives and forks, that doesn't mean that legislation them will stop them being misused. Equally, DRM doesn't help with piracy, and the means don't justify the ends.

[Flibb]

The bit I find annoying is when you instal the game, put the key code in, create an accout, etc. And you still have to have the CD in the drive when you play online. Thats my pet annoyance.

[Gunbuster]

Do you remember the old Team 17 black gloss on matt black code sheets? it was to stop people photocopying the codes for say Worms and just pirating like mad.

The problem was under your standard yellowy lightbulb it was near impossible to read. To the point that I knew a fellow that bought then pirated Worms to play the thing. Do you think he told us to rush out and buy it?

Same goes with overly restrictive DRM, when you penalise the legitimate customer for buying your product you should expect poor sales.

[Platinum]

The problems the people of today, there all freeloaders, Dont give a **** about other people and are happy to rip off a game / software whenever they can, hell I think most people today would steal from shops if they could get away with it, no morals today.
I kind of hope that all the games companys go bust from piracy, that will teach the freeloaders.
Does DRM annoy me, no I think the developers have a right to do whatever it takes to protect there goods from theft, if it pisses off the legit customers then they should do something about it, get there pikey mates (Because lets face it we all have them) to stop pirating.

[aidanjt]

The problems the people of today, there all freeloaders, Dont give a **** about other people and are happy to rip off a game / software whenever they can, hell I think most people today would steal from shops if they could get away with it, no morals today.
I kind of hope that all the games companys go bust from piracy, that will teach the freeloaders.
Does DRM annoy me, no I think the developers have a right to do whatever it takes to protect there goods from theft, if it pisses off the legit customers then they should do something about it, get there pikey mates (Because lets face it we all have them) to stop pirating.

None of that makes any sense. If they piss off their customers that will hurt future sales, that will mean more finger pointing at 'piracy' to blame the loss in sales. Piracy isn't what's hurting software sales, it's pissy attitude against their customers who think they can hijack their computers and impose any sanctions on them as they wish, with half-assed 'protection' systems.

You can blame chavs all you wish, but they're all a bunch of morons and have little or no technical knowledge of cracking or circumventing DRM systems, few have anything remotely resembling a modern gaming pc, most of their gaming goes as far as playstations and xboxes, some may be chipped to read copied discs, with a few bottles of white lightening on the side.

Sure, there's a social issue here, but it isn't just with the general public, it's just as much to do with corporate attitude as well.

[Gunbuster]

The current solutions are like those annoying knock off Nigel adverts at the Cinema. For example I went with a load of friends to see Wall-e. Before the screening there was one of these adverts pointing out how aweful it would be to watch Wall-e (the film on after the advert) on a knock off DVD, you know with all those annoying people coughing during the sound track and people standing up to go to the toilet? What just like being at the Cinema? except you can pause it and you don't have the KON adverts?

Punishing or accusing the people that do pay is not the answer! How about a wee thank you for supporting your local cinema message?

Quark treated it's customers as tamed thieves (http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Quark:Inc.htm) and it has fallen from grace. Adobe on the other hand allow the installation of it professional products on a second machine for demonstration or home use (http://photoshop.weblogsinc.com/2005...h-one-license/).

Treat paying customers with respect first and you encourage more.

[Noksukau]

Before the screening there was one of these adverts pointing out how aweful it would be to watch Wall-e (the film on after the advert) on a knock off DVD, you know with all those annoying people coughing during the sound track and people standing up to go to the toilet? What just like being at the Cinema?

When I saw that ad before The Dark Knight a few weeks back I thought the exact same thing! Same problem, different attitude, and it does make a difference. How many times in society is it the 'good guys' who end up receiving the lecture about the 'bad', when those who need to hear it often aren't there!

Like a lot of people, I have both legit and pirate games. Usually the latter are 'on trial', and I never find I get as much out of them because I didn't put anything into them, financially. When I buy a game, I make sure it is something I want to play, and then to make the most for buying it, I usually play it to death. So, I only 'support' games I like, and treat the pirates like full-version demos from software houses that wouldn't have got my money anyway, so no harm done.

This isn't really to do with DRM, other than the reason it exists, but many times at LAN parties we have to install pirate copies of games because not everyone has a copy, and the kosher versions can't coexist with the cracked ones. Personally, I don't see that there is anything wrong with this either, and it's no different than one person buying a DVD and their family and friends watching it. Each person watching the film doesn't have to buy it separately. Using that analogy, game licensing is rather strict!

[Whiternoise]

One thing that is likely to seriously slow down piracy will be when higher capacity disks come into play. The average pirate doesn't really want to spend his time downloading 25-50GB disc images. Today, it's at most 4.5 - that's easy. A few days at most. A 50GB Blu-Ray ISO also means it'll take up lots more space on the hard drive, is not very cost effective to mass burn, etc (plus of course disk space for the installation).

The other benefit is of course things like uncompressed sound, very high resolution textures, DVD length and quality cut scenes, and so forth.