£1 = $1? Phawwww not enough

[Clunk]

I had an aggravated arson fire when my farmers flared up once. Wasn't pretty.

[j1979]

You've no problem if I come and steal your car then?

stealing a car is very very different.

music + video is infinite

and cars are finite, thats how economics works. lets be honest is a video of say Jurassic park worth £10.99 on VHS when after 5 years it will be worth 25p in a car boot sale!
no it is not worth £10.99 because movies, music, books as digital information cost no resources! Chances are that your car will drop quite alot in value too, but the stuff its made from will always have a scrap value.

you see to copy something that uses no resources harms no-one it is not stealing, because there is nothing to steal. The bit torrent i downloaded yesterday is not something i would ever consider buying.

stealing a car or gold or money is stealing because there is a finite amount on the planet. Why do you think publishing companies are so rich? Because they use very little finite resources and basically sell ideas and words, that can be used over and over and over. Try this, say out load "i am not stealing, i am not stealing, i am not stealing, i am not stealing" doing that cost you nothing, putting it on paper will cost next to nothing but making it out of gold leaf will cost about a quid. You see words are free. plus one of the oldest books in the world told use that it is good to share. And everyone in the western world copied that. I bet moses did not kick off about DRM (digital Rights Management).

If you think piracy is truly stealing then you need to take a look at why you have come to this conclusion. my only conclusion is that you have been sucked in and brain washed by this Big Brother 1984 world that we are entering......Long live Orwell and the voice of the people..

i use a copy of Flash, i could never have paid for this myself, but if im successful and learn well and get a job in the industry, i will pay for a full copy. that is a promise. if im not i will carry on staking the shelves at tescos with my degree in computing....

[Agent]

stealing a car is very different.

music + video is infinite

and cars are finite, thats how economics works.

This must be some meaning of the work ‘infinite’ that was I wasn’t previously aware of.
You don’t buy music / video = less money goes towards production costs = less money to invest and make more content. That’s how economics works, not some twisted idea of if it can be copied.
If you honestly think that economics works on the premise of if something like a CD being ‘infinite’, you’re delusional.

lets be honest is a video of say Jurasic park worth £10.99 on VHS? when after 1 years it will be worth 25p in a car boot sale!

So go and buy if off a car boot sale?

no it is not worth £10.99 because movies, music, books as digital infomation cost no resources!

They cost ‘no resources’?
So production costs, manufacturing and distribution of said media is irrelevant then?

Chances are that your car will drop quite alot in value too, but the stuff its made from will always have a scrap value.

Going by that exact analogy that you’ve stated, then the music and the video examples above should always have their ‘scrap value’, which in this case would be production / marketing / manufacturing and distribution costs. The ones that are not paid when you copy.

you see to copy something that uses no resources harms no-one it is not stealing, because there is nothing to steal.

And this is the exact type of mentality that brings around technology’s like DRM.
If there is ‘nothing to steal’ presumably you are copying nothing then?

The bit torrent i downloaded yesterday is not something i would ever consider buying.

If its not worth buying, its not worth downloading, surely?

stealing a car or gold or money is stealing because there is a finite amount on the planet.

Im not even going to dissect that one. I will let that post stand on its own merit (or lack of).

While my original reply was a bit tongue in cheek (most of the regulars know my opinion of copying material), the reply you have given is just a classic case of “I will consume it, because I can” mentality.

[Agent]

Seeing as you edited and added more....

Why do you think publishing companies are so rich? Because they use very little finite resources and basicly sell ideas and words, that can be used over and over and over.

So what the heck does that prove?
They are supplying a service, irrelevant of how much of the earth’s resources it consumes. A lot of money goes on behind the scenes to provide these services.

Try this, say out load "i am not stealing, i am not stealing, i am not stealing, i am not stealing" doing that cost you nothing

No, that would be stupid.

putting it on paper will cost next to nothing but making it out of gold leaf will cost about a quid. You see words are free. plus one of the oldest books in the world told use that it is good to share. And everyone in the western world copied that. I bet moses did not kick off about DRM (digital Rights Management).

I just cant see how this relates into copying material in anyway. In fact, its making my head hurt.
Once second you’re telling me to shout out “I am not stealing”, the next you’re talking about how some bloke who wasn’t even born when computers were around should be protesting against DRM.
Im truly lost.

If you think piracy is truly stealing then you need to take a look at why you have come to this conclusion.

Alternatively, you could take a look at why you think it’s ok for people to spend their lives making material (computer based or not), and if it’s easy to copy then you have a god-given right to do so, without paying anything towards it.

my only conclusion is that you have been sucked in and brain washed by this Big Brother 1984 world that we are entering......Long live Orwell and the voice of the people..

Or you have been sucked into believing that it’s ok for you to use products you have not paid for.
These products do not magically appear out of thin air. I just can’t get my head around if it’s easy to copy, then you should be allowed to.

i use a copy of Flash, i could never have paid for this myself, but if im successful and learn well and get a job in the industry, i will pay for a full copy. that is a promise. if im not i will carry on staking the shelves at tescos with my degree in computing....

You will buy a full copy because of the associated risks of getting caught with illegal software when profiting from it. Based on your previous comments, its clear that you wouldn’t buy it unless you were in a position where you were forced to.

[j1979]

So you have just quoted me there. You have Stolen my words. PAY ME what you owe me for using my words and i bet there was a massive effort involved to copy the Data.

Did you just click Quote??????? ohh the effort i bet you knackerd from all that hard work.....

So you tell me where are the resources that i am stealing when i download???

[j1979]

have you paid for your avatar picture????????????????

[j1979]

your a hypocyte


fact..

[j1979]

ever recorded a TV programme

i bet you agree with this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/225400.stm

[j1979]

ohh and the fonts used in the thread, have you paid the designer?

[Agent]

So you have just quoted me there. You have Stolen my words. PAY ME what you owe me for using my words and i bet there was a massive effort involved to copy the Data.

I have stolen nothing. You posted on a public forum. If you did not want to be quoted by another public user, then you shouldn’t post.
You don’t find Macromedia posting Flash on the web for free download. Because it’s not free. If you want paying for your writing, then dont post it for free on a public forum.

If you want your words to be paid for, then go and sell them to someone (good luck, though)

Did you just click Quote??????? ohh the effort i bet you knackerd from all that hard work.....

Replacing reasoned debate with stupid comments like that really doesn’t reinforce that fact that you’re not a “OMG DOWNLOAD L0Lz AOL” warez kiddie.

So you tell me where are the resources that i am stealing when i download???

Are you really that blind?
If you are unable to understand that people must make music / software / video, and these must get paid, which in turn needs to be recuperated by selling this work on (ya know, the economics you were going on about above) then I really cant help you.
It’s exactly the same concept as everything else that’s brought and sold that’s tangible. You want it, you pay for it.
Without that, your fabled economics system would fall apart.

[j1979]

These products do not magically appear out of thin air.

YES THEY DO THATS THE WHOLE POINT.... THEY DO COME OUT OFF THIN AIR WHEN YOU COPY IT....

If i could copy a car from my next door neighbour leaving the original in tact and costing no resources is that stealing????

[this_is_gav]

and cars are finite, thats how economics works. lets be honest is a video of say Jurassic park worth £10.99 on VHS when after 5 years it will be worth 25p in a car boot sale!
no it is not worth £10.99 because movies, music, books as digital information cost no resources! Chances are that your car will drop quite alot in value too, but the stuff its made from will always have a scrap value.

I don't think Photoshop is worth £600, but I know some people who do. Photoshop (and most Adobe software) isn't aimed at Joe Public, it's a specialist program for specialist people with specialist needs. It's not a taste. If you think it's the best there is, then it is the best there is, and if your needs demand it, then you will pay the premium. It's nothing like that movie you mentioned. You don't need to buy it to prosper. It won't make you life any easier. Perhaps more pleasant in the short term, but that's it.

Photoshop isn't aimed at the enthusiast, it's aimed at the professional.

LOL at you not finding the edit button

[j1979]

this is my last post as i think im right and you think your right. so nice having this heated debate with you.

But im off now to rub my magic lamp and ask the genie for a identical copy of buck palace for free..

[Agent]

have you paid for your avatar picture????????????????

Nope. Its public domain, thanks to the creator.

your a hypocyte


fact..

Care to explain, or just make wild statements you can’t backup?

ever recorded a TV programme

i bet you agree with this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/225400.stm

Nope I don’t.

ohh and the fonts used in the thread, have you paid the designer?

The fonts are part of my operating system, which at the moment happens to be Windows. This is a legal copy of windows, so yes, the fonts used to render the output to my screen have been ‘paid for’.

[Agent]

YES THEY DO THATS THE WHOLE POINT.... THEY DO COME OUT OFF THIN AIR WHEN YOU COPY IT....

THE WORK BEHIND THE MEDIA DOES NOT COME OUT OF THIN AIR.

If i could copy a car from my next door neighbour leaving the original in tact and costing no resources is that stealing????

You are now getting confused with not only tangible and intangible material, but also with the small issue that we are not onboard the starship Enterprise.
Plus, if you could clone the car, it would take resources, or it would fail to exist (things like metal are needed to make a car, if you wasnt aware).

[j1979]

THE WORK BEHIND THE MEDIA DOES NOT COME OUT OF THIN AIR.



You are now getting confused with not only tangible and intangible material, but also with the small issue that we are not onboard the starship Enterprise.
Plus, if you could clone the car, it would take resources, or it would fail to exist (things like metal are needed to make a car, if you wasnt aware).

i think youve just answered you own question there... if its intangible (IE you cant touch it) there is nothing there.

lol