so is there a decent role in support to move onto after that intial role in it? that pays ok?
as alot of jobs in it support are in call centers are they not? as in 1st line 2nd line ect?
which i think my current jobs covers most of which apart from i need to bone up on servers.
its intersting topic actually i was just thinking about this myself, although as yet i have no degree (open uni is in place) its intersting to know if there is money in it or do i get out now!!
Well you say that, but I interviewed a guy with 7 years experience for a UNIX mail server admin role, and he was unable to tell me what an MX record wasOriginally Posted by Blitzen
True, most of the people I know who graduated at the same time as me had rubbish paying 1st jobs. IMHO lower paying jobs at 'blue chip' companies tend to look better on your CV initially.
So you currently support desktops?
If you're a good communicator and good with people in general, supporting software servers for the likes of Sun/Microsoft/Oracle is a good career path.
Alternatively if you're happier with hardware, you could move into working in data centres as a hardware/OS engineer.
Im just saying it 'how it is' in the real world.Blitzen you are a Hard Man
Im not knocking new graduates.......its just that many of them expect way too much for what they have achieved so far.
You must agree though, that is an exception rather than a rule. Anyone can fabricate a CV if they want to.Well you say that, but I interviewed a guy with 7 years experience for a UNIX mail server admin role, and he was unable to tell me what an MX record was
Someone fresh out of school wouldnt be able to do either without alot of guidance (which most of us dont have time to do).
I have employed software engineers before, both new graduates and so called 'experienced professionals' and have had times when they couldnt even get into MSDN without a 15 page guidebook.
Its work place experience that counts...not on the job experience......they are 2 totally different things.
Last edited by Blitzen; 12-04-2007 at 04:48 PM.
Im good at customer service i think i was shocking before as i cba but these days i think i i am alot better.
I like hardware but also i think i pick up software quite quickly soo..
but you say its pointless jumping ship on first job after 1 year for a couple of grand more in something different?
as currently i work in a shop but go out on ALOT of jobs and also have all manner of desktop repauirs problems and what not to fix, but i class the going out to places as good expirence, but im not sure i know enough to get a better job yet, and i dont think a degree would teach me a vast amount of stuff, that you would find usefull if interviewing me..
not meaning to hijack to much btw
To be perfectly honest, it doesn't matter what sort of job you do to gain experience, obviously if you can get a placement doing something you intend to do later, all well and good BUT, in my opinion, the best experience you can get is real-world experience, dealing with salaries and tax returns, and the 101 other mundane things that people who aren't in school have to deal with. You'll find that those mundane, every day things are a lot harder to get to grips with than your actual work. If you can get the "life" bit sorted, you're winning (cos the actual work's easy if you want to do it).
No.
About 90% of people that work in the "IT" industry are muppets and dont have a clue what they should be doing.
Most of the ones that do are very qualified (though their qualifications may not even be in IT) and have lots of experience.
Those with loads of experience but no qualifications are people that are justifying to themselves either why they dont want to spend a bit of money or some effort.
Who is better, someone that can be arsed to get qualified so someone who cant, all other things equal?
"In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."
as you'll can see you'll get no end of nonsense and opinions in this thread.
people who say qualifications matter, people who say they don't,
Do your own thing and take the oppertunities you get, if this threads anything to go by (thats not to say I agree with half the things being said in this thread.)
It is Inevitable.....
i dont belive that people without qualifications are lazy cba type people because thats simply not true, the only reason on this earth i would waste four years of my life learning is to make me as good as the next person on paper, if i didnt need a degree or qualifications then i sure as hell would not even think about it.
But the more i think about it soo many people have irrelevant degrees now it makes someone who actually has some expireince in a field all the more valuable.
But thanks for this as its convinced me to stay in my job for a while longer instead of going to sell kitchens for a few grand more
Just by virtue of this comment proves you have little to no experience of the real world.About 90% of people that work in the "IT" industry are muppets and dont have a clue what they should be doing.
Maybe the ones you know areThat may be something to do with the companies you have been to...
The software guys that i know are very good at what they do......
Ok, most are 'spotters' but their work is excellent.
Read this comment again and try to realise how utterly stupid it is! Alot of people cant afford it or have parents to carry them into their mid-twenties.Who is better, someone that can be arsed to get qualified so someone who cant, all other things equal?
I did my degree when i was nearly 30 in the armed forces and not from school leaving. Thats probably why, after some experience gained doing crap jobs, i havent struggled since.
To say that people with no qualification are lazy is madness. Its no different to saying someone with a degree is just work-shy (and in many cases at least that is true).
I can see this thread is related to the IT Industry, but i am relating to all graduates. Lets face it, alot of degrees are completely pointless anyway and are an excuse to not have to get a job.
Anyway...its going off topic a little dont you think?
I'm trying to give an opinion from what an employer would do!
Last edited by Blitzen; 12-04-2007 at 07:48 PM.
LOL. Just LOL.Just by virtue of this comment proves you have little to no experience of the real world.
Maybe the ones you know are
None of my friends that work in IT are incompetant. I shant bother qualifying that since you probably think experience is wroth 100 times a CCIE
Really. Lots of people that work in IT cant afford £100 for an examRead this comment again and try to realise how utterly stupid it is! Alot of people cant afford it or have parents to carry them into their mid-twenties.
Anyone that even works in the lowest end IT job and cant afford £100 cant manage their money.
Exactily. So the rest is irrelevant.I did my degree when i was nearly 30 in the armed forces and not from school leaving. Thats probably why, after some experience gained doing crap jobs, i havent struggled since.
To say that people with no qualification are lazy is madness. Its no different to saying someone with a degree is just work-shy (and in many cases at least that is true).
I can see this thread is related to the IT Industry
You do realise there are more qualifications than degrees, right?
An MCP costs just over £100 for the exam and the textbooks are less than £30 each, especially if you get them second hand.
I know a few people in the £15-£35K bracket in IT that thinks IT qualifications are a waste of time. I know a few in the £60K+ bracket. None of them think they are a waste of time, and oddly enough they are very qualified. However, one doesn't have a degree. He has a CCIE.
If I ever had the choice between employing someone with a good degree and 2 years experience and someone with no qualifications beyone A levels and 10 years experience, I would choose the degree qualified person every time, subject to good references. I can think of 3 people that I know that employ in the IT indistry that will agree with ne straight away.
Last edited by badass; 12-04-2007 at 08:15 PM.
"In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."
Useless remark.You do realise there are more qualifications than degrees, right?
Do you work in a job that would enable you to make a decision who is or isn't employed?If I ever had the choice between employing someone with a good degree and 2 years experience and someone with no qualifications beyone A levels and 10 years experience, I would choose the degree qualified person every time, subject to good references
Last edited by Blitzen; 12-04-2007 at 10:14 PM.
My boss has been saying (joking) that we should get some un-paid summer interns.... want some front office investment banking experiance
I only got my job because of my (sucsess?) in the "Imagine Cup". Proving that i'm not only i can program, but captin a team (ironically something i really don't do at all at work).
Blitzen, as for hiring people with degrees and not, well I do get too make decisions like that (the last 2 we hired) and there is no way in hell we'd choose the a-level only person. Sorry but we wouldn't even let the recrement company send us their CVs it would be that much of a waste of time.
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
As i said earlier, you are just speaking in terms of IT people.
If we take on software engineers they are always highly qualified aswell as experienced.
My comments are alot broader in terms of job.
Engineers mainly.
I take great offense. Whilst my job title might have "graduate" in it, as a nicer way of saying female dog but i'm in no way IT.
C++/C#/VB/what-ever-the-hell-is-needed developer.
Its part of the thinning down the CV pile, quite a sad fact of life (ironically as i've only 5 GCSEs i find this happens too me a lot) but you have too do it really, no way i'm reading more than 10CVs a day, i've work too do!
throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)
Great offence at what????
Your last comment made no sense.
You trying to tell me you can code a little bit and you got lucky by playing a game?
If not sorry, thats the way it was written.
Last edited by Blitzen; 12-04-2007 at 10:16 PM.
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