Question - How do you get Experience?

[mcmiller]

And forget the bull agencies give you, the fact is most only have that job they are interested in filling, will not call you back, will not give you feedback, set up adverts for non-existent jobs to get CVs on the system, and will screw up all your formatting to get their crummy logo on. When you find a good agent, keep them working for it. All this said be polite to them, but make sure you remember they are in charge because if they don't like you they will drop you like a stone, they have no interest in serving you or the employer. Look at it this way I like estate agents better.

I been looking for jobs and applying at agencys for a few months and they just waste my time, advertising false jobs getting me to come into register and then telling me there putting me forward jobs, i ask for feedback and guess what i get none hmm strange that.
They are basically scum lowest of the low, i prefer car sales ppl or as you say estate agents at least you know that there goin to try and do you over.
Ive seen them completely screw with my cv so it looked a complete mess so they can stick there stupid logo. Ive also had them lie to me about my pay rate i only noticed when i saw my paypacket, i'm still kinda tempted to report them!

[badass]

Useless remark.
Do you work in a job that would enable you to make a decision who is or isn't employed?

Irrelevant since I mentioned that I know of 3 people that are in a position to employ that have more or less told me exactily what I have repeated here. And for the record, I was hired by someone that actually puts value on qualifications and is one of the people that would agree with me. I do also have significant imput in choosing contractors when we need them. I get to veto any of them as my opinion is valued.
Now, since you have picked on 2 irrelevant points, care to answer the other points in my previous post, baring in mind this thread is about employment in IT.

In fact, of course if you go broader, qualifications lose their value. You dont need a degree to stack shelves in tescos. You dont need an MCSE to operate an injection moulding machine. etc. However this thread is about IT as mentioned by the original poster and several other people.

[TheAnimus]

Great offence at what????
Your last comment made no sense.

You trying to tell me you can code a little bit and you got lucky by playing a game?

If not sorry, thats the way it was written.

Great offense at been labeled IT.

So yes, i can code a little bit, and i supose thats my job. I'm not IT, i'm a developer, world of difference, whilst we are there too suport, its more agile developement, nock something up too solve x. IT generally means Infrastructure, this is not it at all.

The winning point on my CV was my experiance in the Imagine Cup. Yes this was mostly luck, but beating away the competition proved, that i was either more lucky, or perhaps compitent developer and team leader (even thou it was my fault really we didn't win, coming instead runners up).

My writing is normally piss poor (i am retardedly dislexic you know) but that did seam to make sense when i just read it again now!

Life is mean, people make snap decisions, for plenty of jobs they won't want experiance as it often means you've been brainwashed by something they don't identify with. As such the quick easy way too avoid that is a good degree result from a good uni... i get ripped on for having a 2-1 from a polly, even thou it was a red brick. When reading CVs you chuck soo many, because there are soo many time wasters.

[arbitor]

what does a cvv need to read like to make it a non timewaster as im having a few issues writing a good cv myself

[Barrichello]

LOL. Just LOL.
If I ever had the choice between employing someone with a good degree and 2 years experience and someone with no qualifications beyone A levels and 10 years experience, I would choose the degree qualified person every time, subject to good references. I can think of 3 people that I know that employ in the IT indistry that will agree with ne straight away.

Wonder why the investment bank i work for pays me (with no degree) ****eloads more than the wet behind the ears grads they have.

In a word - Experience.

A piece of paper and words after your name means nothing compared to solid experience.

[finlay666]

A piece of paper and words after your name means nothing compared to solid experience.

so your CV means nothing (joke)

I think it does depend on the company, I know when i was at 6th form there were companies 'recruiting' for sponsored uni placements to get more people, the name escapes me but its a big company with 2 names in it...

Mind I would rather higher someone with a mix of the 2 than heavy balanced in either side of qualification/experience

my $0.02 anyway

[Blitzen]

Great offense at been labeled IT

If you read the whole thread you would realise im not taking solely about IT.
I obviously just touched a nerve and you reacted.
I also wouldnt employ someone with a 2-1 over someone with three good graded A Levels in academic subjects.

Wonder why the investment bank i work for pays me (with no degree) ****eloads more than the wet behind the ears grads they have.

In a word - Experience.

A piece of paper and words after your name means nothing compared to solid experience.

A litle harsh maybe as someone with a 'worthwhile' degree (something academic) deserves the breaks. But i totally agree with your 2nd and 3rd sentences.

Irrelevant since I mentioned that I know of 3 people that are in a position to employ that have more or less told me exactily what I have repeated here

I'll take it you don't get involved in decision making.

No too suprising really

[b0redom]

As this thread has now gone hopelessly off topic - in answer to the OP - pester the hell out of agents - email them your CV, then call them up for a chat. If they put you forward for something, call them up every day or so to remind them.

Try and find out which companies have graduate recruitment programmes, your Uni career centre will probably help, and give a preference to larger companies over smaller ones. You'll not necessarily learn as much, but as a hiring manager, I'd be more likely to consider IBM or Microsoft over "Shady Bob's computer shack".

In my experience, my degree was the first step in getting my first job. In getting 2nd, 3rd, 4th.... the experience was the thing the companies were interested in.

[Blitzen]

OP....Try and get ANY kind of working experience first.
That way you will find it alot easier to get employed in your chosen field.

[tiggerai]

Experience and having a well rounded set of skills are always winners in my experience. All depends on the job of course, but for example, your typical "Code Monkey" couldn't do my job as they (as a rule) cannot deal with people. I've got my job because I can speak in english to non-technical clients, and Technical to my developers.

They used to joke at Lloyds that I'd got my job because I was a Cheerleader at Uni.

My experience and list of skills a mile long is always what have got me my jobs, nothing to do with the fact that I have a 2:1 Engineering degree from a redbrick, in fact its only really there to prove I can apply myself to something.

As Blitzen said, Experience in the correct field, even a few weeks at a time, is priceless.

[kalniel]

Slay more goblins.

[GeorgeTuk]

LOL. Just LOL.
None of my friends that work in IT are incompetant. I shant bother qualifying that since you probably think experience is wroth 100 times a CCIE

Really. Lots of people that work in IT cant afford £100 for an exam
Anyone that even works in the lowest end IT job and cant afford £100 cant manage their money.

Exactily. So the rest is irrelevant.

You do realise there are more qualifications than degrees, right?
An MCP costs just over £100 for the exam and the textbooks are less than £30 each, especially if you get them second hand.
I know a few people in the £15-£35K bracket in IT that thinks IT qualifications are a waste of time. I know a few in the £60K+ bracket. None of them think they are a waste of time, and oddly enough they are very qualified. However, one doesn't have a degree. He has a CCIE.

If I ever had the choice between employing someone with a good degree and 2 years experience and someone with no qualifications beyone A levels and 10 years experience, I would choose the degree qualified person every time, subject to good references. I can think of 3 people that I know that employ in the IT indistry that will agree with ne straight away.

Ahhh Badass, you must be a great person to know since you and your mates are the only good people in IT.

And as for the qualifications over experience, I don't there is an argument there. But thats only at the CV stage. Believe me I have worked with several agencies large and small and also have a friend who is a recruitment consultant and they all say the same. BUT that is only a current industry trend it could change!

On a side note, people in IT who are arrogant are always the worst since they are unwilling to learn from others. True in most jobs however IT is quite heavily laden with arrogant over-confident plebs. I had the privileged to work in an environment where I saw and supported several important but small scale projects, believe me the arrogant, over confident engineers who don't take advice are always brought down to size and everyone else can see their faults not just the personality based ones, only the the person themselves never realises probably until they don't progress.

[GeorgeTuk]

what does a cvv need to read like to make it a non timewaster as im having a few issues writing a good cv myself

Concentrate on what you have done and achieved, don't try to dress it up as something else.

Don't talk about yourself in glowing terms, talk in business style.

What jobs have you done?

[RoGuE|SaBeR]

Good to see this is finally coming back around to a decent discussion

[arbitor]

Concentrate on what you have done and achieved, don't try to dress it up as something else.

Don't talk about yourself in glowing terms, talk in business style.

What jobs have you done?

well to date, when i left college last year, i started a job in a computer shop, but the good bit about this is that i do alot of pc callouts, and have done alot of different things, that normally in a shop you wouldnt be able to do, so although its not a glamourous job, it gives me a good variety, the pay is reasonably good for what it is, i have been doing it a year almost.. what you reckon?
worth moving on or staying another year?

[GeorgeTuk]

well to date, when i left college last year, i started a job in a computer shop, but the good bit about this is that i do alot of pc callouts, and have done alot of different things, that normally in a shop you wouldnt be able to do, so although its not a glamourous job, it gives me a good variety, the pay is reasonably good for what it is, i have been doing it a year almost.. what you reckon?
worth moving on or staying another year?

Your doing well mate, don't worry its up to you if you want to move.

But concentrate on the variety of the work, have you done server work? Mention it. Set up small networks? Mention it. Hardware? Mention it. Boil your work down to what you have actually done and write it down. Definitley be making sure they know you do support plus have the face to face contact with customers and that you advise (which you do!). Also don't mention the size of the shop just talk about the good things.