Why is this man the president?

[Bazzlad]

Funnily enough, I've never seen a completely mentally balanced person taking "hard drugs".

Although, the way Charlie (coke) is becoming a fashion accessory, I'm sure the beer pressure effect will kick in soon.

[Brucelles]

To sort of get back on topic, GWB managed to get straight after being basically an alcoholic. That's not bad.

He's still a mass-murdering clown, but I have to give him credit for giving up the booze.

[Bazzlad]

He's still a mass-murdering clown, but I have to give him credit for giving up the booze.

Is Winston Churchill a mass murderer? (Obviously not comparing the two) but what makes GWB a mass murderer persay? I thought he'd actually have to kill someone.

[Byatt]

I don't agree with using drugs at all because you become dependant on them to deal with problems and the like which is a major sign of weakness to me, people need to get some back bone in this world there are too many weaners around and that's what is wrong with our world at the moment.

There really isn't a rolleyes big enough for this post.

http://www.tdpf.org.uk/ is all I'm saying on this subject, although if anyone has come across (hypothetical) scenarios where decriminalisation/legalisation doesn't minimise societal harm, I'd be grateful if you could send me a PM.

[Bazzlad]

There really isn't a rolleyes big enough for this post.

http://www.tdpf.org.uk/ is all I'm saying on this subject, although if anyone has come across (hypothetical) scenarios where decriminalisation/legalisation doesn't minimise societal harm, I'd be grateful if you could send me a PM.

Hypothetical. Enough said.

[badass]

Wow. Glad I couldn't be arsed to carry on with this thread

[Byatt]

Hypothetical. Enough said.

*shrug* Real examples would be equally useful. We currently save £9.50 for every £1 we put into treating drug problems, thus, from the view of a pragmatist, even a comprehensively regulated legalised market would be revenue neutral at the worst, viz. alcohol, nicotine, etc.

Perhaps that's what you were saying, or perhaps you just don't want to debate the issue - fair enough, neither do I, I'm just hoping you aren't thinking that arguments for such a system are miraculously dismissed by cries of "but we can never know what drastically terrible effects legalisation will cause!!".

[Bazzlad]

Perhaps that's what you were saying, or perhaps you just don't want to debate the issue - fair enough, neither do I.

It's the I don't want to debate it, because it's like banging your head against the wall - everyone has an equally valid opinion.

I'm just hoping you aren't thinking that arguments for such a system are miraculously dismissed by cries of "but we can never know what drastically terrible effects legalisation will cause!!"

We don't even know the true effects of cannabis long term yet. I've had one of my best mates who took iteveryday (1 in the morn, 1 at night). He used to be fun. He now doesn't leave his bedroom or bathe. He's scared to. Docs have seen him and know he's on more drugs. Not working though.

We know the effects of alcohol from the centuries of use. We really don't know the effects of Cannabis and more studies need to go into it.

[JPreston]

JPreston, do you mind me asking how much tax you payed in the last 6 months?

Its just I for one am sick of where my money is going....

I pay quite a lot of tax I suppose, more than I would if I lived in Somalia, less than I would if I lived in Sweden....but then it's a question of what public services are available to me, and those around me.

For example I don't bother with private medical care, the NHS is fine Ten years ago we had 1000's dying annually on waiting lists, or on trolleys in crumbling hospitals, today it's completely different - I'm curious why you think you 'have' to go private?

At the end of the day I've always thought that if I decide I don't have enough money in my wallet, it's my fault for not earning enough in the first place. The idea that it's the govt's fault for taxing me too much never crosses my mind. I've done alright for myself, with that philosophy

IMO I would have to be a...erm... particular kind of person to want to snatch pounds back and stuff them into my pocket, that would otherwise be used to provide services for those much much less wealthy than myself. But then, that's conservatives for you...

[Bazzlad]

For example I don't bother with private medical care, the NHS is fine Ten years ago we had 1000's dying annually on waiting lists.

Yes, it's good that under labour we don't have 10,000 die from hospital infections a year.

Oh. We do.

Hospital infections 'kill 10,000 a year'
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...39;/article.do

Good old Labour.

Oh and after all that extra money....

The NHS faces a combined debt of nearly £200m and is, in many cases, finding it difficult to pay its bills, a survey has revealed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/516928.stm

Thanks for the 80 tax rises Brown - good to see my monye is working

[TheAnimus]

For example I don't bother with private medical care, the NHS is fine Ten years ago we had 1000's dying annually on waiting lists, or on trolleys in crumbling hospitals, today it's completely different - I'm curious why you think you 'have' to go private?

At the end of the day I've always thought that if I decide I don't have enough money in my wallet, it's my fault for not earning enough in the first place. The idea that it's the govt's fault for taxing me too much never crosses my mind. I've done alright for myself, with that philosophy

IMO I would have to be a...erm... particular kind of person to want to snatch pounds back and stuff them into my pocket, that would otherwise be used to provide services for those much much less wealthy than myself. But then, that's conservatives for you...

First on the NHS, its utter bollocks. In 96, i was seeing a consultant within 6 weeks, after i had been seen i was on the top of the priority list, i would get an operation (simple day surgery) within 4 weeks.

Then labour came along, with its extra money and targets. What happens too cut the operation waiting list?

I have too wait 6 months too see Mr Orwark. Nice.

Once I've seen him i'm straight too the top of the list again, which fair play too labour takes only 2 weeks.

I know which one i'd prefer.

The reason i have private health is because i'm quite difficult too replace, regretably when i'm on holiday i will get a couple of calls because my code is so ropey people can't figure out whats going on, its not a good thing, but it happens because we have too get complex things out the door fast. As such the cost of having me waiting (which when viewed as a whole, has gone up under labour) is hudge too the firm, so buying me private health makes sense.

Too much money is spent, and wasted. Tax & Spend dosen't work, as far as i know there is no example of it ever working, if it did france would be a world leading economy(!)

I'm not moaning about how much i'm getting taxed per say, and i can't really complain about my income i supose. I'm just vexed as too where its going. It sure as hell isn't where i think it should go. (PFI anyone?)

[Byatt]

Tax & Spend dosen't work, as far as i know there is no example of it ever working, if it did france would be a world leading economy(!)

Eeh, not one to derail a train of thought here, but the WHO reckoned (or they did, in 2000) that France has the best healthcare system on the planet - they do spend a higher percentage of GDP on it, admittedly, but you gets what you pays for, if you spend it in the right place...

(source: here)

[Bazzlad]

Eeh, not one to derail a train of thought here, but the WHO reckoned (or they did, in 2000) that France has the best healthcare system on the planet - they do spend a higher percentage of GDP on it, admittedly, but you gets what you pays for, if you spend it in the right place...

(source: here)

Cuba has the highest ratio of doctors per head of population of any country (W.H.O) at one per 177 people. Cuba is one of the biggest contributors to UN disaster relief programmes (eg.Tsunami 2004, Kashmir Earthquake 2005). It's domestic services are comprehensive & free

[Nick]

Ah yes, Cuba, that bastion of human rights and democracy...

[Bazzlad]

Ah yes, Cuba, that bastion of human rights and democracy...

Don't hear them complaining about it, do you?

[Byatt]

Cuba has the highest ratio of doctors per head of population of any country (W.H.O) at one per 177 people. Cuba is one of the biggest contributors to UN disaster relief programmes (eg.Tsunami 2004, Kashmir Earthquake 2005). It's domestic services are comprehensive & free

Which isn't necessarily the only or best measure of quality healthcare (it's not much use if none of them have a scalpel), but then you're bringing up another example of socialised healthcare doing a good job, so I guess you're attempting to agree?