What does buying a DVD movie give you?

[streetster]

Hey Guys,

Just been reading about hd-dvd/bluray blah etc... and thought that you are getting is a film at a higher resolution.

Lets say that the resolution of a DVD movies is 480x576.

If i buy a DVD of a film, am i allowed to download a dvd-rip of it? by buying the DVD have i effectively bought a 'license to watch this film'.

and if so, have i explicitly bought a license to watch that film at 576p?

If I were to download a 720p or 1080p version of that same film, would I be breaking the law? if so which ones?

Ie why would I buy a bluray/hd-dvd version of a film I already own?

[Jay]

the fact that the copy protection has been broken means the copy is illegal.

[Agent]

If i buy a DVD of a film, am i allowed to download a dvd-rip of it? by buying the DVD have i effectively bought a 'license to watch this film'.

You have the right to watch the content of the disk, thats pretty much it.

and if so, have i explicitly bought a license to watch that film at 576p?

As it is on the disk

If I were to download a 720p or 1080p version of that same film, would I be breaking the law? if so which ones?

Yes.
As for the laws? Copyright infringement id assume would be the most appropriate?

Ie why would I buy a bluray/hd-dvd version of a film I already own?

The new costs associated with mastering a HDDVD/Bluray movie aint cheap. Everything from the packaging, right down to remasting the film from the original footage has to be done.

If you don't want the higher resolution, don't buy the HD version

[directhex]

Lets say that the resolution of a DVD movies is 480x576.

let's say you're off to a bad start - PAL DVD movies are 720x576 (it's very rare to have a transfer where every pixel is used though, and subtract black borders for widescreenness).

[Saracen]

....

If i buy a DVD of a film, am i allowed to download a dvd-rip of it?

No. Not in the UK anyway. It varies in other countries.

by buying the DVD have i effectively bought a 'license to watch this film'.

Pretty much, yeah. You've bought the physical media and packaging, etc, but not the right to copy either the disc content or the packaging. You can use the disc for private, domestic purposes .... but you don't even generally have the right to show it in public places, like pubs, for instance. There are versions of discs available specifically with those rights attached. The same applies to renting your discs out. If you want to start up a rental library, you need to buy versions of the discs (that are more expensive) that include that right.

and if so, have i explicitly bought a license to watch that film at 576p?

Nope. You've bought the right to use the disc you bought. You could upscale the disc to run through a projector at higher resolution, but buying a disc doesn't give you the right to make copies, and by downloading, you are "making" a copy.

If I were to download a 720p or 1080p version of that same film, would I be breaking the law?

Yes.

.. if so which ones?

Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, plus various acts and statutory instruments that amend that primary legislation, such as the Copyright and Related Rights Regulations 2003 (SI 2003/2498).

the fact that the copy protection has been broken means the copy is illegal.

It would have been illegal anyway. Deliberately bypassing copy protection technology turns what may well have been a civil matter into a criminal offence.


Basically, in the UK, your rights to copy any copyright material, even if you bought it legitimately, are VERY restricted.You can't even legally copy a disc for your car, or MP3 it for your iPod, strictly speaking. And note, that it NOT the case in all countries. US law, for instance, differs on that point. One exception is that legit uses of computer software do have the right to make necessary backups without infringing copyright law .... though a recent amendment suggests that if you have to bypass copy protection to do so, you may not be breakingt he law by making the copy, but yiou are by bypassing the copy protection.

But, by and large, that sort of copying (disc for car, MP3 for your iPod, etc) is ignored because, well, for a start, how's the rights holder going to find out? And even if he did find out, it almost certainly isn't worth the legal costs to pursue it. But, if you are selling copies (or doing a variety of other things for commercial purposes), then it becomes a criminal offence, and you can get LARGE fines, or theoretically at least, even substantial jail sentences ..... though in both cases, that's only likely to happen to those operating on a rather large scale.

[Agent]

Wonder if anything will ever come of this

A good page to have a read of is : http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19923233_en_2.htm

Interestingly...

"Back up copies.
50A.—(1) It is not an infringement of copyright for a lawful user of a copy of a computer program to make any back up copy of it which it is necessary for him to have for the purposes of his lawful use.

Obviously that wont apply to DVD's and the like - but nice to know for PC stuff

Oh, the times I wish I had taken law

[streetster]

Its all so strange... I'm assuming the same is true of tapes/cds too?

Anyway, good job I havent downloaded any such films

[nichomach]

Everything Saracen said; although it's worth noting that the BPI have stated that they do not have any interest in pursuing people who make personal copies of audio material (such as ripping for use with their MP3 player or whatever). Now, they could change their mind at a later date, but estoppel would probably prevent them pursuing people for copies made prior to that later date (although I can't really see them reversing their position on this anyway - it got them some GOOD press for a change ).

[mcmiller]

i saw an article where they tried to suggest that companies wanted the law to be so that your not actually buying the product just a license to use it, and that you actually own nothing and they can revoke the license at any time, this wasnt just for films it was for everything phones, dvd players etc..

[nichomach]

Actually, that IS pretty much the law, at least as far as the "you're just buying a license to use it in the manner specified". Such a license cannot, however, be revoked without cause.

[kalniel]

Yup. The advantage is they have to fully show us the license that we're agreeing to, and if we don't agree to it we should get a full refund.

[streetster]

Right... Second Question.

Scenario 1.

I wanted to watch the last episode of Peep Show last friday, i set the video recorder, but being a muppet I selected bbc2 instead of Channel 4. Hence I failed to record it.

If i were to download the episode instead, am I breaking the law? If so, why? would I be breaking the law if i'd successfully vcr'd it off the tv?




[e!] Lets ignore the fact that I could probably get it off the Four On Demand thing

[ikonia]

I think the difference in that senario is who's distributing it - and the fact that its being distributed.

eg: you recorded it for your own personal use off a live tranmission.

if you download it,

someone has recorded it from a live transmission and is distributing it, and now your downloading and viewing that license breaking file.

[directhex]

Right... Second Question.

Scenario 1.

I wanted to watch the last episode of Peep Show last friday, i set the video recorder, but being a muppet I selected bbc2 instead of Channel 4. Hence I failed to record it.

If i were to download the episode instead, am I breaking the law? If so, why? would I be breaking the law if i'd successfully vcr'd it off the tv?




[e!] Lets ignore the fact that I could probably get it off the Four On Demand thing

i know it seems silly, but as ikonia says, there's a legal difference between timeshifting it yourself, and obtaining it from an unauthorized source on the net

[Saracen]

i know it seems silly, but as ikonia says, there's a legal difference between timeshifting it yourself, and obtaining it from an unauthorized source on the net

That's basically the point.

Essentially, the situation is that when an original work is created, copyright exists by virtue of that act of creation. From that point, until copyright expires (and when that is depends on the nature of the work), it's illegal to create any copy unless either :-

1) You have permission from the copyright holder, or
2) The work has explicitly been placed in the public domain, or
3) Your "copy" falls into one of the statutory exemptions.


"Timeshifting" is one of the statutory exemptions, but it has restrictions and limitations, principally that it is for personal domestic use. What most emphatically is not the case, however, is that just because a work has been broadcast, it has been placed into the public domain or that the fact of it's broadcast gives people any other rights than those granted by the legislation, i.e. to "timeshift", etc.

And if you download a copy, you aren't timeshifting, because you aren't doing it to a broadcast transmission. Also, even if the copy you download was recorded by someone using the timeshifting exemption, their copy would become an infringing copy as soon as they upload it for distribution, since that is not a permitted use of a timeshift copy.

That leaves us with the rather farcical situation, streetster, that while you and I could both "timeshift" a program that's being transmitted, I can't "timeshift" it and give you a copy.

Of course, all this is the theoretical technicalities of copyright, and from a practical perspective I find it hard to imagine a situation where anyone is going to get more than a warning letter if they did download something under those circumstances, and they probably wouldn't even get that. I also rather suspect that if a private individual did download a program for domestic use that they could have timeshifted, and it ever did get to court, the court would be likely to regard the bringing of such a case as a monumental waste of an already over-loaded court's time.

[streetster]

Saracen, thankyou for the detailed response, this topic has always confused me but now its all clear and for the record, it was a cracking season finale of peep show, which i recorded on my freeview pvr