Bloody students

[Lee]

cambridge, studying CS (moving to physics in second year).

I try not to get into verbal debates about uni top up fees etc, as people can very quickly mane an oppinion that i am being right wing / cheapskate. i'm not, i genuinely believe that anyone smart enough to go to uni should. but i know of people at unis (which may remain nameless) who have done a few essays over an entire TERM. if thats the course you are doing, the country should not have to pay for it. However if you're doing a course that will stimulate your mind, then you are the future and you should be helped to go as far as possible.

incidently i am not a tory, more of a floating votor (though at the moment theres not really anywhere to float).

dgr

Excellent, well done! - Which college? A meet up is in order I think.

For my sins I am a young Conservative but fear not, I certainly don't associate myself with the old Thatcher image of the nasty party.

[Allen]

I think what people are forgetting is that there are students who study hard, work for their own money, pay for their own course and get good results. There are also student who don't study hard, sponge of the state (our hard earned money!), don't pay for their own course and get crappy results. We as a nation again seem to just be taking note of those doing bad, and ignoring those doing good.

I have not been to Uni, I'm 24 and have been working since I left school. I'm glad I never went to Uni now, coz IMHO it's a waste of time with so many people going through Uni and getting degrees the market will be flooded with people (some of which won't have studied hard, and therefore won't be good enough for the well paid jobs) which will make it difficult for those who have studied hard to get a decent job and pay off their debts.

I think that degrees should be fully paid for by the students, and if their mummy's and daddy's can't pay for it (like so many I know who's do) then you should get a job and save up for it. My brother is 27 and has only recently saved up the money and started at Hull Uni studying Law. Good bloody luck to him. There's no way my family could've afforded to put him through Uni 10 years ago when he wasn't exactly sure of what he wanted to do.

I would suggest that perhaps the better way to do it is to leave school, get a job, enjoy life and save up some money, decide what you really really wanna do for a living and then if Uni is a necessity save up for it. When you've left you'll have experience, a degree, not a lot of debt and a great feeling of satisfaction of doing something off your own back rather than relying on others to get through.

Uni is not always needed if you already have a half-decent job with a bit of experience. There are always other more dedicated courses available to you if you want to progress from your job that you can do in evenings or weekends. I am studying an accounting course at a local college Tuesday's and Thursday's. Once complete, I'll have an AAT qualification, 4 years accounts experience (I messed about in pubs for a few years) and can demand over £30-40k a year. Can you guaruntee that with Uni? I don't think so...

Or you could go the 'normal' route and leave Uni at about 20/21 with a degree, no experience, loads of debt and no decent job to go to. Then go live with your parents again and stay in debt for ages and ages and moan till you're blue in the face...

[Cat Woman]

How is me sponging off my parents any different to you sponging off the state? In any case, I may as well be living away from home with the amount of rent I pay. And then there's the cost of commuting, bills, tax, socialising... let's call it 'living' shall we; it's a cost that will always be there, just like education fees.

We have to pay it back...with interest!! Its not sponging, its borrowing and we never do get all the petrol, food and rent money back, not that we're complaining because thats a sacrifice we have to take.

[Cat Woman]

I think for a 19 year old in a full time job, you are VERY naive
How can you even comment on things that you have NO experience in?

I bet you're still living with your parents too, so whats that if it's not sponging off them?
When you're paying rent, bills, petrol and all the other stuff that comes with living away from home, then I might give you some respect.

I detest people who think they are all grown up just coz they have a lucky break. Yes you are entitled to an opinion, but to sweepingly generalise all us students who work their little bottoms off for a career is just not nice.

Grow Up Shad. And woe betide you if you ever cross my path.

Couldnt have said it better myself!!
Its quite obvious Shad that you have brought this subject up to provoke a few people. You seem like one of those people who will go out and will purposely start a fight.
Tis all I can say

[dgr]

at what point do you define the cutoff then? Right, you, you're only on 4 essays per term, start paying, now! What about an essay a week? What about an essay a fortnight, with the added proviso that the text the essay is based on is greek, and requires translation first? As for stimulation of mind - there's no real argument that studying the arts is any less stimulating than having relativistic mechanics explained to you, in my opinion.

I agree that it's hardly fair for students on loafing courses to have their way paid for them, just saying that it's very difficult to legislate against that happening, and I feel that, as a bi-product of paying everyone's fees and making education free we get a few of these loafers in the system, that's not too horrible a price to pay. Life would be terribly dull if we were all the same.

Byatt, you bring up a few noteable points.

clearly there is not a black line through which degrees and worthy and which are not. for instance i have friend studying english who has a maximum of one lecture a week. is he lazy? idle? no, its just his course warrants lots of individual thought and reading.

it is up to the university itself to decide which courses are worthy, and for the government to decide which universities are able to hand out degrees.

government, univiersity and business should discuss which degrees are relevant for the workplace.

dgr

[dgr]

Excellent, well done! - Which college? A meet up is in order I think.

For my sins I am a young Conservative but fear not, I certainly don't associate myself with the old Thatcher image of the nasty party.

lee, are you at cambridge as well? if so, which college/course/yr?

i'm at jesus (near sainsbury's and life, though you probably knew that).

regards

dgr

[lynni]

Ive been reading this thread for a number of days now and havent said anything.... But im afraid to say im another one of those that disagrees with your attitude towards student. Luckily im not in the postition that some of the other poster's here are cos im not a 'typical student', im a student nurse and recieve a small amount (very very small!) of money from the NHS every month and im hopeing to come out the other end in september 2005 with a relatively small debt to pay off if none at all.... But i have a younger sister who is a fresher at Liverpool University and is seemed to be a normal student and she is really lucky that iam studying the course iam (iam able to financially support myself with less help from my mum and dad), cos i have no idea how my parents would have put us both thru uni.... i doubt highly that it would have happened to be honest.

[J4MES]

Thanks 13 grand for an 'experience' sounds like an expensive holiday to me, but as you've correctly spotted I don't have any university experience so this is just my opinion.

whaaaaatttttttttt????????????????????

13k is about an average debt for an early twenties graduate, do you think this looks like a good prospect to school leavers, or perhaps the only way into a profession which requires graduates?? expensive holiday??? 13k. thirteen thousand pounds - a nice car, a house deposit, or an education which many NEED to enter their chosen profession. i suppose you'd just ask them all not to bother, to get a job when they leave school? yes, it's a choice, but one that's not taken lightly, and when you're spending 35 weeks a year studying, 15 workin to fund it, then that leaves 2 weeks for a holiday!

[tiggerai]

How is me sponging off my parents any different to you sponging off the state? In any case, I may as well be living away from home with the amount of rent I pay. And then there's the cost of commuting, bills, tax, socialising... let's call it 'living' shall we; it's a cost that will always be there, just like education fees.

And HOW exactly am I sponging off the state?

This year I am working, as a student as part of my course, PAYING THE SAME TAX as everyone else, and paying tuition fees this year as well (for nothing). So I think I am actually doing the state a favour. I have had half a loan cheque this year... which I will have to pay back, with interest. SO WHERE EXACTLY AM I SPONGING????

Out of my £13k student wage (about £900 take home) I pay Rent, bills, petrol, food, tuition fees and everything else. I don't get any money from my parents, No benefits. Only my student loan, which I will have to pay back.

Of course everyone else is different, but as an individual i don't think I'm doing too bad. Because my Parents earn a lot, I get the minimum loan and have to pay the maximum amount of fees. I still have to work flat out every holiday to make up the deficit that my overdraft won't cover.

As i said, my accomodation back at uni is £2200 and tuition fees of £1100. I get a loan of just under £3k. Add in my overdraft and I have £1300 to live on a year. That has to buy my books, pay for travel, socialising, food etc etc.

I apologise for taking offence, but untill you've been a student for 3 years please don't judge people just on what you read in the papers or hear on the news.

When I am finished I will have (in my opinion) a very good degree. and I am so glad I haven't missed out on the experience. And Yes, i do liken it to the 3 week holiday in the states that cost £15k. If I had had to choose between the 2, i would have chosen uni hands down.

[floppybootstomp]

perhaps slightly off topic but I had to smile when I seen phrases like 'floating voter' and 'young Tory'.

Fact is, there's no difference between Tony's Blair's so-called Labour party and John Major's old Tory Goverment. Fact is, Blair's more right wing than the present Tory opposition, that's why whoever's in charge of the Conservatives right now (I dunno who?) makes so little noise, Labour are doing all the thing's they'd be doing.

I mean, all they can come up with is some tosh about reducing speed cameras or something. Desperately going for the populist vote or what?

Hah, I've had it with all of 'em, gonna vote anarchist next time

OK, thanks for letting me have my little rant, back on topic...

[Byatt]

perhaps slightly off topic but I had to smile when I seen phrases like 'floating voter' and 'young Tory'.

Fact is, there's no difference between Tony's Blair's so-called Labour party and John Major's old Tory Goverment. Fact is, Blair's more right wing than the present Tory opposition, that's why whoever's in charge of the Conservatives right now (I dunno who?) makes so little noise, Labour are doing all the thing's they'd be doing.

I mean, all they can come up with is some tosh about reducing speed cameras or something. Desperately going for the populist vote or what?

Hah, I've had it with all of 'em, gonna vote anarchist next time

OK, thanks for letting me have my little rant, back on topic...

the new tory leader is Michael Howard, but I certainly wouldn't describe him as quiet, but he seems to be considerably more on the ball than Duncan Smith..and although I'm not a conservative, what I believe this country needs right now is an effective opposition. From their policies I wouldn't elect any of the big three, the lib dems believe their penny on income tax is going to solve everything, labour still don't have brown in charge, and the tories will simply continue most of "new labour" policy (as you say). I think I'll join you on the anarchy voters list.

[MDC]

Shouldn't you be making more use of your time at uni. Having been to cambridge and done 2 degrees consecutively, I feel that not only can I reliably spell "voter" but I can also point out that you are wasting valuable drunkening time by posting on this forum. I hope you are wasted now. ps I love you

Anonymous Caller

[Atomic]

Nutter.

[Howard]

This thread is HOW OLD? Lol

[scottyman]

MDC - talk about trawling through the dregs!
I thought this had died many moons ago!

[bouncin]

Bloody students bleh.

i dont get along with students but i dont h8 what they do hopefully next time im in hospital an ex student will be treating me.

lol shall i call him a sponge for a laugh