Bad Phorm

[Salazaar]

i don't disagree with you there - as i say i'm not here to imbibe anyone's view, just interested to see the subject raised at all. i'm screening out all the accusations of penny-pinching (obviously not so easy if they are aimed at you..) & just following the topic, at worst i'll know fractionally more than i did to start with.

The best information I've found on the subject so far is this Open Letter to the Information Commissioner - the open letter from FIPR to the Government basically detailing exactly why Phorm, in its current incarnation, is illegal under British law anyway.

[Saracen]

Good letter, Salazaar. It echoes much of my own feelings about the issue.

My only reservation is when you say "the open letter from FIPR to the Government basically detailing exactly why Phorm, in its current incarnation, is illegal under British law anyway."

The bold emphasis is mine.

I'd characterise it as "why the FIPR claims (or, perhaps, "argues") it's illegal under British Law anyway".

It is, after all, only an opinion. An informed, apparently qualified, and well-expressed opinion, but an opinion. Would that a senior court had agreed with it, and confirmed that that was definitely the case.

[Saracen]

Sorry, I used the wrong phrase. As I understood it, it's the interception that has been ruled illegal by FIPR without an explicit opt-in system.

As with the above post, I'd challenge the word "ruled". As I understand it, the FIPR can't "rule" it anything. It's a representation to the IC Office, nothing more.

[TheAnimus]

If you really want to understand what is going on it might help if you were to put a little more effort in. The net is rife with fuller examples and more explainations than can be given here.

The consumers currently targeted are to be those of Virgin Media, Talk Talk and BT; that sucks in millions of people most of whom have no idea that this Phorm thing is going on. The intention of this thread is to open eyes. If after opening your eyes you decide penny-pinching apathy is more important to you than preserving your civil liberty, go back to bed and sleep it off until it's all over.

Way to go theAnimus. Bob Dylan won't be covering your eventful life in a protest rendition will he? Back to bed sleepyhead

You'll have to forgive me, i lost my Mesiah Complex quite some time ago.

I'm not one for penny pinching or been apathetic i'm affriad, but i don't stand in my highly mortgaged flat, stroking my middle class uni educated facial hair, looking at my proffesional job dictating that everyone else has to afford the same luxories as me, otherwise i'd be as sickeningly mesiahlike as viz's The Modern Parents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Salazaar]

As with the above post, I'd challenge the word "ruled". As I understand it, the FIPR can't "rule" it anything. It's a representation to the IC Office, nothing more.

Yep, you're quite right of course.

Similarly Phorm itself is still in its formative (pardon the pun) stages meaning most of these arguments are just as speculative as well

[santa claus]

Great posts throughout this thread Saracen! I share your views completely .

[Agent]

Shall we all hug now?

[Mike Fishcake]

*fondles*

[iranu]

*fondles*

lol - that reminds me off being a member of a cast doing a Gilbert and Sullivan play during my college last year whereby the party at the end of the week was always a Bacchanalian debauchery, which was the reason for partaking in such an escapade. (actually it's the one with Bacchus - oh how we laughed as my mate had to wash the gold paint off himself 5 nights in a row). At the time we were dressed as dragoon guards in greenest finery along with gold braiding etc, etc. At the half-time interval we made a hasty exit down to a local pub called the Wheatsheaf which is no longer there. A couple of swift pints or 3 later and we were in fine fettle.

The next act had our dragoon commander do his singing bit and then, whilst someone else did their ditty, he proceeded to inspect the fine, upstanding, young gentlemen under his command. A quick straightening of the shoulders here, a quick tap to adjust the cap there. The second from last in the row, whom I might add, had a "deaf ear" and could not sing in tune to save his life, ended up being fondled as he stood to attention by said commander. This could only be seen from the stage and had most of us in fits of laughter as the poor bastard tried to keep a straight but rather confused face.

Anyway, I'm sure someone else will egt this back on topic.

[santa claus]

lol - that reminds me off being a member of a cast doing a Gilbert and Sullivan play during my college last year whereby the party at the end of the week was always a Bacchanalian debauchery, which was the reason for partaking in such an escapade. (actually it's the one with Bacchus - oh how we laughed as my mate had to wash the gold paint off himself 5 nights in a row). At the time we were dressed as dragoon guards in greenest finery along with gold braiding etc, etc. At the half-time interval we made a hasty exit down to a local pub called the Wheatsheaf which is no longer there. A couple of swift pints or 3 later and we were in fine fettle.

The next act had our dragoon commander do his singing bit and then, whilst someone else did their ditty, he proceeded to inspect the fine, upstanding, young gentlemen under his command. A quick straightening of the shoulders here, a quick tap to adjust the cap there. The second from last in the row, whom I might add, had a "deaf ear" and could not sing in tune to save his life, ended up being fondled as he stood to attention by said commander. This could only be seen from the stage and had most of us in fits of laughter as the poor bastard tried to keep a straight but rather confused face.

Anyway, I'm sure someone else will egt this back on topic.

As the OP, I think that duty falls to me. Could I ask that all future contributors do not imbibe in waccy baccy before posting please. Thank you

Now, to get the discussion restarted and on track, I offer the following:

Phorm are nosey b*stards. Discuss.

[Lucio]

Well, on the plus side, just got a response back from my MP, less than a week after writing to him. He agrees that the system, as proposed, would constitute a breach of privacy and has asked that the Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform take a look into the issue.

Hopefully, they're already aware of the situation but the more people who ask their MP's to look into this, the better, because quite frankly it's not going to be long before a general election comes round and I'm sure they'll want to show that they're concerned about us and Phorm represents an easy points scoring issue

[santa claus]

Well, on the plus side, just got a response back from my MP, less than a week after writing to him. He agrees that the system, as proposed, would constitute a breach of privacy and has asked that the Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform take a look into the issue.

Hopefully, they're already aware of the situation but the more people who ask their MP's to look into this, the better, because quite frankly it's not going to be long before a general election comes round and I'm sure they'll want to show that they're concerned about us and Phorm represents an easy points scoring issue

Well done Lucio, thank goodness for people like you who won't just be walked over. Good Man

[Salazaar]

Well done Lucio, thank goodness for people like you who won't just be walked over. Good Man

It's that kind of sweeping statement that really annoys me. You've just implied that every person not up in arms about the whole situation is a human doormat.

If you want a rational discussion about the pros and (more likely) cons of it, please do so. But bitchy sideswipes at anyone who doesn't toe your line is hardly constructive.

[Lucio]

It's that kind of sweeping statement that really annoys me. You've just implied that every person not up in arms about the whole situation is a human doormat.

If you want a rational discussion about the pros and (more likely) cons of it, please do so. But bitchy sideswipes at anyone who doesn't toe your line is hardly constructive.

You're right, it's not helpful to insult those that you want to sway to your side. Simply put, I am standing against the concept of Phorm because 1) I don't have an alternative ISP to run to and 2) Since it's clear this technology will arrive sooner or later, it's best to make sure it's regulated and legislated for now rather than later.

Whilst I can forsee ways in which Phorm can be implimented without hassle, as previously mentioned by others here as being clearly opt-in, with choices for those of us who don't want this kind of spying, I don't think that'll happen if you leave the decision up to the companies involved. Therefore, I took the time out to write to my MP, who is there to make a fuss on my behalf.

You did state previously that you felt this was a small issue, that we'd already lost far too many of our rights in the name of protecting big companies, so I am surprised that you don't want to take a stand on this issue.

[JK Ferret]

You've just implied that every person not up in arms about the whole situation is a human doormat.

You could read it differently, seeing Lucio as one of the people who is taking pro-active steps, rather than just sitting on their arses and complaining about it on the internet forums.

[Salazaar]

You could read it differently, seeing Lucio as one of the people who is taking pro-active steps, rather than just sitting on their arses and complaining about it on the internet forums.

But while I do see it as a fairly despicable business practice, I don't see it as an issue worth making a massive fuss over. And I really don't like being insulted because of that.

Ultimately I'm of the opinion that if you don't like the service, don't pay the people implementing it.

If it was being forced it on all ISPs it would be something to worry about but since we all have a choice about which ISP to use I really don't see the problem. If you want cheap internet access and you're willing to forego some privacy issues to compensate then take that option.

I don't really see that runing to an MP will make much difference anyway, the privacy legislation is already in place, it's just a matter of ruling as to whether Phorm is legal or not which is nothing to do with the legislative branch of government anyway. If it is legal then let market forces decide what the population will accept, if not BT, Virgin and Tiscalli are hardely going to go ahead with it or they risk massive class action suites against them.

Personally, I don't think that at this stage they can possibly legally implement Phorm without some kind of opt-in system. If they were to implement it without that sort of control I'd be jumping ship ASAP.

In any case I resent the arbitrary dismissal of my (and other similar) views by Santa without any real argument to the contrary.