Fair enough, the point I was attempting to make is the members and mods here react better to reasoned, thought out posts - akin to those posted by Saracen (though not quite to that extreme) - rather than one liners.
Proper written English rather than txtspk is also much appreciated, makes it sooo much easier to read.
Not meant to be a dig in anyway - just a gentle nudge in the right direction
Last edited by dave87; 03-05-2008 at 10:15 PM.
The NHS is in a bit of a bad way, yes.
In this particular case, it must be remembered how the NHS works. NHS treatment policy is set on a local level by Primary Care Trusts (PCTs), who get the final and ultimate say over what diagnostic techniques and treatments are allowed. This decision is typically based only on short term cost (the immediate cost, rather than the long term probable costs). PCTs are why we have a 'postcode lottery' with respect to healthcare.
Hospital departments now, thanks to the way PCTs work, have to run more like businesses than health providers. They invoice each other for all services given. In this case, as MRI time is so limited, I would presume that the cost to the department of an MRI would be considered not worth their expenditure.
The problems with the NHS are nothing new, and staff within the NHS know that in its current state, it is quite frankly doomed. Even the solution is clear, but requires abandoning using the NHS for quick political gains, which no government yet has been willing to do
i had to wait 10 weeks to have a lump removed from lower back, when i had been reading that people were getting the same procedure done privately in a matter of days. I'm not fortunate enough to be in a position where private healthcare is a viable option. I've got too much stuff wrong with me for any kind of health insurance at a reasonable price.
The thing is though, that in a large number of cases, the "private" doctors are the same doctors who would see you on the NHS.
Fair enough the chances of getting an MRI, waiting lists, hosital conditions are all improved by going private, but in your case you were probably just unlucky in getting a doc (or two) who got it wrong...
The private doctors may be the same, but the service available on private premises, the speed, and feeling that someone is actually doing something about your problem is all more. I have heard of cases where private doctors were as bad as the NHS ones for diagnosing a proble, but I am willing to take my chances if and when I need medical care.
Every hospital doctor I know has private medical insurance - that alone is testament to the quality of the NHS care. They dont even want to be treated in the same hospitals they work in, even though they are likely to be treated better than a patient by virtue of knowing people there.
All Hail the AACS : 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Yep the NHS are completely useless...
My cousin has crohns disease and when he has one of the attacks which can block his intestines, he needs to be rushed to hospital and dealt with a fast as possible as he can die at literally any second. What do they usually do instead? See to morons who are drug addicts and alcoholics and make him wait. Then take weeks to diagnose whether his intestines were actually blocked or not...
I mean by the time they get around to telling him things about his LIFE THREATENING condition he could already be dead weeks before... or well it's pretty obvious the problem has fixed itself as he's still alive...
Thought I may aswell post in here seen as I already have instead of making a new thread.
Had an MRI scan three weeks or so ago and I went to see a surgeon on Thursday (couldn't make the appointment that was made at an earlier date) and he went through the MRI scan for me.
Before I had the MRI scan it was thought that there was no damage to my ACL but the MRI scan has revealed that Ive torn it at the top and its messed up at the the bottom aswell, but my PCL is fine. It also shown bone and cartilage damage where the two bones have been wacking each other.
But the surgeon thinks the damage isnt as bad as the MRI scan shows (from what he gathered from him shaking my leg around) if it is though Ill have to have an ACL reconstruction. But ive got to have an Arthroscopy to sort out the bone and cartilage, and clean it up a bit. And he said when that happens he will also have a look at my ACL so he can see for himself what the damage is really like, he said he will then prolly decide if I need the reconstruction.
Operation waiting time is less than 6 months on NHS and privately I can have it any time but it would cost £3k+, so my parents are going to find out the exact cost and see if there is any way of me getting it done private.
So yeah... thats whats happening so far with me.
Sorry to hear about that! I am 5 weeks post-reconstruction now
Well I can tell you it cost my insurers £6k for everything including the MRI but excluding the physiotherapy... If you go private, you could probably walk into a hospital on Monday and have the op before Friday lol... so it depends on how much of a rush you are in... It will take 9 months to 1 year for full recovery...
TBH, 6 months isn't that long and the private and NHS doctors are the same, so I would just wait. Make sure you do physio for the next 6 months before the op. I did a year of physio before my op and my physiotherapist is very impressed with how quickly I am recovering! So waiting 6 months will speed up your recovery anyway.
My surgeon knew (just by examining even before I had the MRI, MRI confirmed a complete tear though) that I needed the surgery so he didn't do the preliminary Arthroscopy... he just did both in one go... if you knee is unstable and giving you problems, it would be easier on you to do both at the same time if its possible...
How did it get injured? Are you planning to go for a patella graft or a hamstring graft?
I don't have the best impression of physiotherapy. Back in school, a fat <explicit> landed on my knee during our high jump session (I landed between two mattresses and couldn't get out on time before the guy did his jump).
I was in excruciating pain, knew that it was more than a bruise, but the PE teacher just thought it would be fine after with a bit of ice. My knee was actually dislocated, with one of my tendon busted, but I didn't know the later until more than a year later. What I knew was that they eventually put me on plasters, and when that didn't do much a doctor decided to put me through physiotherapy where they forcibly tried to straighten my knee little by little.
Aside from the pain, it was pretty pointless. Eventually my knee would sort of dislocate/get back to the right place when it felt like it. School staff thought I was making a scene whenever I mention that I can't move properly anymore because my knee is dislocated, because it would sometime get itself in the right position hours, sometime minutes later. I gave up trying to explain that the problem was still there.
Until the knee decided to dislocate for good once when I went skiing that is. I couldn't move, it wouldn't get back and someone had to call the emergency service to get me to a hospital. There, I was diagnosed properly, and I was basically told that it would take an operation to fix my knee (pretty much what I thought more than a year earlier when the <explicit> landed on my knee).
I don't know what treatment I had (can't remember it in French, let alone the English name - this was in Switzerland). All I know is that they put four or five holes around my knee, I believe it was used to insert some tubes during the operation.
When I woke up from the full aesthetic, I was told that the operation was a success, and the knee is good as new. And it seems to be the case. I know this story was a little OT, but just to be slight more on-topic, I do recall being transferred from one hospital to another for insurance reason. I can only presume that the original hospital was private because I had a TV in my room and it looked overall a bit more 'comfortable' to stay. But the second hospital where I received the operation got the job done anyway. And it was so much more effective than the months wasted doing physiotherapy (or maybe I am just ignorant of the good it did).
The NHS isn't always worse than the private sector, though it's becoming increasingly the case as experienced staff are being lured away by the higher private sector wages.
Also, part of the reason SiM had such a bad experience was because one of the key areas that people are turning to the private sector for is injuries, especially sports related ones. There just isn't enough specialist knowledge left in the NHS any more.
It's a real shame, but it's what you get when you allow private and public sectors to offer the same services.
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This is bunny and friends. He is fed up waiting for everyone to help him out, and decided to help himself instead!
actually for those i know who've gone to the dark side, its not money, its a case of been sick to death with the cronic inefficencies and waste.Originally Posted by Lucio
Why? Surely people would work for the employer that treated them better? As has been pointed out (and you can see it been done by some trusts) the private sector is often CHEAPER than the cost to the NHS of the operation. Its not as if the private sector will just pay more in wages to staff than it needs too.It's a real shame, but it's what you get when you allow private and public sectors to offer the same services.
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Why do people continue to wrongly belive that the NHS is poor quality. Trust me its not, it is one of the highest quality ealth services in the world.. that is fact. it is also fact that you will get better trained and more experienced staff on the NHS on average
and a huge section of people who work for Bupa do so as a second job , thier main job is working for the NHS.
the reason people belive that the NHS is crap is due to bad press. if its good enough for Prince Charles its good enough for me. But if you rich people want to continue to pay for lower quality doctors, only with a nice low waiting time and customer sevice with a smile, be my guest, it makes the NHS even better..
edit: ohh and the reason they are given bad press is because some rich powerful people have big investments in private health care.
Last edited by j1979; 20-07-2008 at 12:35 PM.
My surgeon is part time NHS, part time private... I think most are like this, so its not a case of different skill/experience between NHS and private, its just that they have slightly different objectives!
Yep, the majority of doctors in the private sector also work for the NHS. However the biggest problem with the NHS is its mismanagement and utter lack of efficiency. I personally think they have enough money, but it needs to be used in the correct way. The amount of money they waste on pointless things is just incredible. And also because of a lack of money, they are sometimes bloody slow in diagnosing patients due to large waiting times for getting tests/scans done and a lack of specialist doctors available in the wards. This often leads to further complications with the patient, as diagnosis is late, leading to more money spent as the treatments are longer.
I remember a while back when doing work experience I was given free access to all hospital (not the smartest thing to do), but I once walked into the MRI room and I saw a huge back log of scans to do. We are talking about 100 of those yellow cards dating back a couple of weeks, some which should have been done within a couple of days of being issued. Funny thing I was told they only do a couple a day!!!!
Also its not just money, NHS also has other problems. A lot of resource is spent on A&E (alcohol), drugs related problems, maternity, sexual health, all of which private healthcare does not really have to deal with.
Sim, good luck with the recovery!
I had the hamstring graft... usually its better to do what the surgeon feels he is best at. The advantage of a patella graft over the hamstring graft is that they chip away some bone from each end of the patella tendon, and then it heals bone to bone, so recovery is slightly quicker. But its more painful after since you lose a whole third of the tendon connected to your kneecap and they chip away some of your kneecap... If I had to choose again, I would definitely go for the hamstring graft again because there is less long term risk.
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