Masonic Brotherhoods

[mikerr]

Business men's lunches, just like a few other societies (circles).

Basically, being able to talk to the mayor, counciller, solicitor etc over a drink. That is very valuable, and they will happily give business to each other.

Its not really different to having a wide social circle (but easier for many), and using that to your business advantage.

[eshrules]

I tried to respond but it was deleted.
Giggle all you like. but i am not naive or ignorant. You accuse me of that when you also know next to nothing about it.
I just prefer spending my time with the fairer sex rather than other blokes supporting fictional charities.

The reason i declined (twice) is because i would rather not spend my spare time with people like you

BTW.........It doesnt feel elitist as i isnt. Alot of you just think it is. Thats why you say you go to meet 'educated' people. Do you really believe these people are more educated? They are no more intelligent than the rest of us. They just think they are.

my 'giggle' was an attempt to keep this light-hearted, it was never intended to turn into a keyboard warrior contest

in regards to the 'more educated' I refer to those who have reached a position of some standing within our community, such as well respected solicitors, doctors and such. I do not, for one moment consider these people to be more intelligent than myself, but in the same breath, I realise that to get anywhere in life, you need advice and who better to give that than someone who's got somewhere already?

in regards to the 'fictional charities' i can assure you they're not fictional, but i sense i am wasting my time somewhat.

I'll ignore your little jibe about 'people like me' , on account of you knowing nothing about me, nor what my background is... sheesh.

it was a simple idea, start a thread, ask for peoples opinions, i didnt for one minute think people would become insutling or otherwise

[Dareos]

Subsidised bar?! I'm sold

as i understand it, he pays 20 quid a month for 6 months, then another 20 quid for a four course meal and a subsidised bar.


thats 140 quid for a meal where you have to pay for your own drinks, unless Gordon Ramsay is actually cooking this dinner in front of you, and Alyson Hannigan is your topless waitress, thats a bit of a rip off imo.


Of course if this is the case, i will sign up now please.


*only joking, last time i tried i dislocated my thumb trying one of those funny handshakes*

quick edit : i notice Clunk is reading this thread atm, i await his comments with baited breath

[AledJ]

No, that's really not it, although please understand that i'm not being argumentative for the sake of it.

Democracy, at least from one perspective, is about the majority electing who they want to act or speak for them.
That's not what i'm advocating as such.
A masonic group can have whomever it wants in charge, by whatever means they got there (first come first served? father was a mason?).
But irrespective of who the decision makers are (be it a despotic system or communist) they should be answerable to justify their decisions. At it's most simplistic, they should be allowed to be fired. And if the decisions they make affect a wider community, then the wider community should be able to fire them. And THAT is the problem, because the wider community doesn't know who they are, let alone who is in charge of what.

In truth, i actually doubt masonic groups have that much power, so it's not an issue that worries me much. But the principal is there, and it's what i stand by.

Ok ok...... I have to say my bit here lol My farther is a Mason and deals with all the charity funds raising etc Not sure what happens in other lodges but they will all meet and decided on a number of charities to donate too.

The reason it has secrets is the same reason every other club in the world does- no secrets=no club. If everyone knew about the inner working of the Masons then would be nothing special about it.

And MISC what do you think the Masons are lol some kind of public body. What are these decision that affect the community??? The only effect i have seen is the giving of money to local charities as well as national charities. You could say the Government are a secret club!!! We don't know all their secrets do we???


From what I have seen the Masons provide money for charity, a place for people to meet and make new friends and also a social group. My dad has not benefited from being friends with lawyers or 'butchers', police etc etc if anything he has got satisfaction out of it. Satisfaction in that the work he does to raise money for charity benefits others in our community.


If you really want to know what it is all about go and join then if you don't like it just leave!


last bit..........I have been asked to join but not had the time due to being at Uni.

[schmunk]

Having had a read around, as it is an interesting subject, it appears that the actuality of Freemasonry is somewhat less interesting.

It appears to be essentially a supper club for mainly rather old men to escape from their wives for a night every couple of months, and that there are very few active members below mid thirties.

Having a look at my local "Provincial Grand Lodge" website, I note that the sports clubs number only Bowls, Fishing and Golf...

Whilst I don't doubt the noble and charitable objectives of Freemasonry, I note with disdain the requirement to 'believe in a supreme being'. I presume this would include Pastafarianism?

[Clunk]

Pastafarianism?

[Nick]

esh, sorry, but I'm going to majorly annoy you now.

Before I do, I'm sure you're an absolute diamond geezer and if we met in real life we'd get on great... now to your 'club'.

Speaking from long personal experience, with my uncle being some head chief grand wizard bloke of at least three lodges (one after another) and still being heavily involved in the Masons, and having attended several Masons events, I can quite honestly say that outside of the KKK I've never met a bunch of more collectively bigoted, misogynistic, self-congratulating, fatuous, condescending pricks in my entire life.

Sorry, but there it is.

To put it in the words of several masons, thinking they were being politically correct, "No, we don't allow coloureds... or Jews".

Incredibly, I was asked to join... and after a good pico-second of thought, I told them to get stuffed.

Once I was more aware of the masons attitude to non-white races and non-christian religions, I have since politely declined every and all invitations to their dinner nights, golf evenings and all that.

Sure, my ignorance is no excuse but I stopped as soon as I found out what their ideals really are.

Perhaps things have changed? Well, I find that hard to believe seeing as ingrained bigots choose who joins next.

Sure, on the face of it, having a 'club' where everyone helps each other out is all well and good, but it's really a crappy pyramid scheme, the higher up you are, the more benefits you get from other members.

And how good is an organization that immediately asks you to lie so you can get in? I was told to not tell anyone my wife is Jewish... oops, better not tell them I had a black girlfriend once either... or copped off with a hot Chinese chick for a couple of weeks on holiday once.

Sorry esh, I'm in no way saying you shouldn't do whatever the hell you want and it's frankly none of my bloody business anyway, but as you can probably guess, on both a personal and ethical level, I thoroughly disapprove of the masons.

If you want to support a charity and get a warm fuzzy feeling, pick up the phone and set up a sub to the NSPCC instead.

[schmunk]

To put it in the words of several masons, thinking they were being politically correct, "No, we don't allow coloureds... or Jews".

I hope we are all aware that Jim Davidson is a prominent Freemason...

(and I'm sure that the High Chief Grand Dragon Wizard Super Secret Double Stuf'd Great Wahoonie Prince Michael of Kent is also a flagbearer for tolerance, equality and inclusiveness, both in public and in private, like his wife is)

If you want to support a charity and get a warm fuzzy feeling, pick up the phone and set up a sub to the NSPCC instead.

[eshrules]

esh, sorry, but I'm going to majorly annoy you now.

Before I do, I'm sure you're an absolute diamond geezer and if we met in real life we'd get on great... now to your 'club'.

no you won't I like opinons, I like discussion, I just can't stand personal insults and such, there's no need is there, when we don't know each other etc, so feel free to say your piece, that's what this thread's all about.

Speaking from long personal experience, with my uncle being some head chief grand wizard bloke of at least three lodges (one after another) and still being heavily involved in the Masons, and having attended several Masons events, I can quite honestly say that outside of the KKK I've never met a bunch of more collectively bigoted, misogynistic, self-congratulating, fatuous, condescending pricks in my entire life.

Sorry, but there it is.

To put it in the words of several masons, thinking they were being politically correct, "No, we don't allow coloureds... or Jews".

Incredibly, I was asked to join... and after a good pico-second of thought, I told them to get stuffed.

Once I was more aware of the masons attitude to non-white races and non-christian religions, I have since politely declined every and all invitations to their dinner nights, golf evenings and all that.

Sure, my ignorance is no excuse but I stopped as soon as I found out what their ideals really are.

Perhaps things have changed? Well, I find that hard to believe seeing as ingrained bigots choose who joins next.

Sure, on the face of it, having a 'club' where everyone helps each other out is all well and good, but it's really a crappy pyramid scheme, the higher up you are, the more benefits you get from other members.

And how good is an organization that immediately asks you to lie so you can get in? I was told to not tell anyone my wife is Jewish... oops, better not tell them I had a black girlfriend once either... or copped off with a hot Chinese chick for a couple of weeks on holiday once.

Sorry esh, I'm in no way saying you shouldn't do whatever the hell you want and it's frankly none of my bloody business anyway, but as you can probably guess, on both a personal and ethical level, I thoroughly disapprove of the masons.

If you want to support a charity and get a warm fuzzy feeling, pick up the phone and set up a sub to the NSPCC instead.

I'm very sorry, dissapointed and somewhat annoyed at these masons you've met, as this is NOT what masons is/should be about. Should I come up against such racist opinions, I will be sure to set those people straight, as it's not what I signed up for, nor is it something I beleive in, so I completley agree and support you there.

Another thing I've picked up on, there isn't a requirement (as far as I am aware) to be a 'christian' or to have a belief in God, simply a 'supreme' being, something or someone you believe to be greater than yourself, which I've always had a firm belief in anyway, there is something definitley bigger than us out there, what? I don't know, but I'm we're not alone <cue x-files theme tune>

I fear that you may have stumbled upon a 'bad' lodge, I've so far visited 2 lodges, other than my own, both of which were very welcoming, had some very young members and seemed to represent the values I support.

[MSIC]

Another thing I've picked up on, there isn't a requirement (as far as I am aware) to be a 'christian' or to have a belief in God, simply a 'supreme' being, something or someone you believe to be greater than yourself, which I've always had a firm belief in anyway, there is something definitley bigger than us out there, what? I don't know, but I'm we're not alone <cue x-files theme tune>

Now that IS interesting, as it's the first bit of real information about masonic lodges i've ever been told, so thank you for that.
By the way, you are aware that that is also exactly the same requirement that Alcoholics Annonymous, Narcotics Annonymous et al have with their 12 step approach (the 'Minnesota Model')?
It's used for when people are no longer able to cope on their own with life as they know it and announce that they need lifelong help and support to keep then on the straight and narrow.

[schmunk]

Another thing I've picked up on, there isn't a requirement (as far as I am aware) to be a 'christian' or to have a belief in God, simply a 'supreme' being, something or someone you believe to be greater than yourself,

This is where it falls down for me.

I fear that you may have stumbled upon a 'bad' lodge, I've so far visited 2 lodges, other than my own, both of which were very welcoming, had some very young members and seemed to represent the values I support.

And these are..?

[eshrules]

This is where it falls down for me.

sorry.... I don't follow, why is that where it falls down for you?

And these are..?

and again, sorry, I don't quite follow?

[schmunk]

sorry.... I don't follow, why is that where it falls down for you?

Because I don't belief in a supreme being.

Humans are as supreme as it gets, from the evidence available to me. If you have any convincing contradictory evidence, please do share.

and again, sorry, I don't quite follow?

Did you see the bit, in my post, where I highlighted a part of the quote from your post and then put a question underneath? What I meant by doing that was to question the part of the quote from your post that I highlighted.

To clarify, my question is "What are the values you support, which the members of the Masonic lodges you have visited seemed to represent?"

[Nick]

esh, thanks for being understanding... tbh,I thought I'd gone a bit OTT but it really miffed me off to have someone say that stuff to me.

Maybe it is a bad lodge or two and I think I'll settle for that.

Without wanting to sound condescending, hope it all works out for you and the lodge do some good... maybe even helping to change peoples' perceptions of what the masons are all about.

(ps, do you have to wear a leather apron? And do you know the secret handshake?)

[eshrules]

Because I don't belief in a supreme being.

Humans are as supreme as it gets, from the evidence available to me. If you have any convincing contradictory evidence, please do share.

hmmm... the classic 'if i don't see it, it don't exist' argument, compelling as it is, there IS evidence to suggest we're not alone, tons of the stuff....

Did you see the bit, in my post, where I highlighted a part of the quote from your post and then put a question underneath? What I meant by doing that was to question the part of the quote from your post that I highlighted.

To clarify, my question is "What are the values you support, which the members of the Masonic lodges you have visited seemed to represent?"

the people I've visited are solid, upstanding fellows who give tirelessly to charity and are, quite simply, just good blokes. I'll do anything for anyone, if it's of benefit to them (within reason) as i'm that sort of guy, I'm a firm believer in the idea of Karma and how everything positive has a negative opposite etc, being a member of the masons is part of my way of giving a little bit back.

esh, thanks for being understanding... tbh,I thought I'd gone a bit OTT but it really miffed me off to have someone say that stuff to me.

Maybe it is a bad lodge or two and I think I'll settle for that.

Without wanting to sound condescending, hope it all works out for you and the lodge do some good... maybe even helping to change peoples' perceptions of what the masons are all about.

(ps, do you have to wear a leather apron? And do you know the secret handshake?)

as with most things in life, maybe when you've got the energy/incentive, you should give it another try, a different lodge, hell, come visit mine, no strings, simply see what you think....

you don't sound condescending thanks for the good wishes....

and P.S. I don't think I can say anything about that

[IBM]

Since we're already on the slippery slope of theological discussion, can I be the first to mention Nazis?