If you are not planning to stay in the UK all of your working life, where to?

[SiM]

So do I, I like having earthed 3 pin plugs
£ > All
Decent Internet
Although stupid laws and lots of crime I still like it.
No Major Earthquakes
No Hurricanes
I like rain.

Used to want to go live in USA but after 9/11 I don't see the sparkle anymore.

You forgot the main one:
No one speaks stupid mainland European languages

[IBM]

Los Angeles...primarily it's cause it's my wife's spiritual home, and I don't really care where I live when it comes down to it.

Plus, the sunshine, and Santa Monica make for an incredible combination. In addition to the top quality farmers markets, and the fact that every time you go to a superstore, it's an incredible shopping experience, and everything is cheaper there, and there's great Mexican, Chinese and Japanese food, and every waitress is stunning....there's more, but I've got work to do.

[Paul Adams]

I made the move from England to Sweden almost 4 years ago, and haven't regretted it for a second.

Before getting a job here and relocating, I had spent a few months looking through options for getting employment - it's a bit like the old "it's not what you know, it's who you know" idea a lot, personal recommendations from current employees hold a lot of weight.

Yes the language thing is tricky to get used to, but here they have a 4-stage multi-week course "Svenska För Invandrare" ("Swedish For (lit.) Invaders") and it's completely free.

(@alsenior - Sweden is in the EU, it's Norway that has spurned it so far - however we don't yet have the Euro, and neither does Denmark)


As to what attracted me, I'll admit it was around 2002 that I got bored of English life and wanted to try working abroad to expand my experiences - originally I was considering the Netherlands as I'd met a few Dutch guys and their English was flawless and I thought that might help with the language barrier issue, I hadn't originally considered the Scandinavian countries.

Real seasons - very warm, sunny summers ("midnight sun" is a reality in the northern parts, and even in Stockholm the longest day ends with a ~1 hour period of no sun), and very cold, snowy winters (this last winter an exception, only a few days of snow).
Oh, really cold - my first visit to Stockholm was in January and it was 21 degrees below.

This is the strange thing - Sweden has a population of just over 9,000,000 and its area is almost twice that of the entire United Kingdom, yet if you go abroad, read forums or play MMOGs you will stumble across Swedes everywhere
My wife grumbles occasionally about "massive queues" and "bad traffic" - after a trip to the Trafford Centre last Christmas she is now of the same opinion as me, it's a luxury being in a capital city with under 2,000,000 inhabitants

Sense of humour - the Swedes have a bizarre, slightly surreal sense of humour and absolutely lap up British comedy like Monty Python.

~66% of Sweden is trees, and it has fantastically beautiful landscape and scenery in Stockholm.

Cable internet goes up to 100Mbps over fiber.

I live 25 minutes from the airport and 25 minutes from the centre of Stockholm by tube.

Not that it affects me, but the parental support system is supposed to be very good - a colleague moved here from Oz and he & his Swedish wife intend to stay until their sprog is 4 or 5 due to the benefits - such as mandatory paternity leave, and "parental" leave that is shared between the mother & father, spendable with the first 5 years of each child's life.

6 weeks holiday per year for full-time workers, by law.

Virtually cash-less society - pay for taxis, bar bills, lunch, whatever by credit/debit card, using your PIN & possibly ID card for 2-factor authentication, none of that silly "signature" stuff has been accepted here for years (nor is a passport considered a form of ID, I found).

Yes, Sweden has an ID card scheme, has had it for years - you are born with (or acquire after emigration) a personal number which is "you" to the government.
Personally I like it, as it made moving accounts between 2 banks as simple as:
"hey, can I move over there?" *scribble* *print* *sign* *done*

Bills invariably come payable via the Internet with a unique code with the amount hashed in so you can't pay the wrong amount.

Internet banking is the norm, using certificate & PINs or one-use-scratch-off codes depending on your bank.

Housing is not expensive - the land a building is on is where the most cash is spent, and a lot of Swedes build secondary (summer) houses in the countryside where the family spends their 6-week holiday break.

Food-wise, lots of fish - real fish, with flavour and everything, but not battered, breaded or deep fried.
Prawns are ridiculously cheap and supermarkets tend to have the "pick n mix" style scoops and bags next to chest freezers so you can help yourself - and not those silly tiny things John West tries to sell you in bags, these are proper size
Loads of different types of bread, not just "brown" and "white".


Things I miss?
Salt & vinegar crisps, Bovril, crispy aromatic duck, stronger-than-Korma curries.
The first 2, however, can be purchased from "The English Shop" in town - the others are nice treats when I visit England.

24-hour supermarkets - while bars & clubs sometimes open at 22:00 and run through to breakfast, there aren't the convenient completely empty supermarkets... though as you can't buy medicine or booze maybe there's not much call anyway...


Things I don't like?
Well, I don't go out boozing as much as I did in England, but it can be expensive here - probably not noticeable to those that live in/near London, though

Anything even remotely looking like booze stronger than 3.5% is sold only from government-controlled outlets ("Systembolaget") and has slightly restrictive opening hours (though better than it used to be).

All forms of medicine are only sold from government-controlled outlets ("Apoteket"), so better make sure you have headache pills in stock for the morning after a visit to the Systembolaget!


Did I consider other countries?
Yes, at first I laughably thought about the US as an experience - my parents moved there in 2000 and after a few stories from my dad, a few visits, and reading up on the work permit process I kicked that idea into touch with joy.

[Gerrard]

As Rosaline has mentioned, I'm not much of a language guru, so am limited to USA, Canada and AUS/NZ. Don't fancy living in America; visiting yes, but not to live. Canada sounds great, but is difficult to get into as far as I am aware. Also a bit too close to the US for my liking!

From what I've heard, Aus don't particularly like the English. We are Pommey (sp?) b******s. NZ sounds OK, but the main problem as far as I am concerned is the lateness games get released and the distance/pings to various MMO servers (how bloody sad am I to consider that as a major point of emigrating!! Seriously, my requirements for living are electricity, broadband and running water in that order! ).

But, every country has it's problems. We think this country is crap (and tbh, it probably is to a certain point), but until you have lived in another country you won't be aware of the problems they have. Switzerland is a good bet. Nuclear bunker in every household, perfect for coming nuclear apocalypse!

Edit: Yes, I remember seeing programs on how Sweden is leading in technical terms and a program specifically on the cashless system. Does sound nice; expensive as well!

[Funkstar]

I don't have any particular destination in mind, but wherever work sends me or wherever I have to go to stay with the woman I fall for.

[fuddam]

China or Japan or Taiwan

- better food
- more opportunity out east, workwise.
- less bureaucracy
- sense of community is stronger
- useful languages to learn
- better surf than the UK

[alsenior]

@paul adams

is Swedish a difficult language to get a grasp of? i have enough trouble with English as it is

[Paul Adams]

is Swedish a difficult language to get a grasp of? i have enough trouble with English as it is

Easier to understand than to speak, I find.
There are several Swedish radio stations that broadcast on the Internet - to the untrained ear you could mistake it for German, but it's not so "harshly spoken" - some stations are like Radio 4 in the presentation style (think Joanna Lumley elecution) and others are like Radio 1 (think Chris Moyles or Chris Evans).

There are certain sounds that Swedes emit that we just don't have
The number 7 is pronounced kind of like "hwoo", and is often the biggest giveaway to Swedes as to spotting non-native speakers

The grammar is something to battle with - think of translating word for word and then turning it round to sound like Yoda.
Then the truth you will be having, you will find.
Speaking Swedish you are, yeeeeesss.

[Sinizter]

I made the move from England to Sweden almost 4 years ago, and haven't regretted it for a second.

Before getting a job here and relocating, I had spent a few months looking through options for getting employment - it's a bit like the old "it's not what you know, it's who you know" idea a lot, personal recommendations from current employees hold a lot of weight.

Yes the language thing is tricky to get used to, but here they have a 4-stage multi-week course "Svenska För Invandrare" ("Swedish For (lit.) Invaders") and it's completely free.

(@alsenior - Sweden is in the EU, it's Norway that has spurned it so far - however we don't yet have the Euro, and neither does Denmark)


As to what attracted me, I'll admit it was around 2002 that I got bored of English life and wanted to try working abroad to expand my experiences - originally I was considering the Netherlands as I'd met a few Dutch guys and their English was flawless and I thought that might help with the language barrier issue, I hadn't originally considered the Scandinavian countries.

Real seasons - very warm, sunny summers ("midnight sun" is a reality in the northern parts, and even in Stockholm the longest day ends with a ~1 hour period of no sun), and very cold, snowy winters (this last winter an exception, only a few days of snow).
Oh, really cold - my first visit to Stockholm was in January and it was 21 degrees below.

This is the strange thing - Sweden has a population of just over 9,000,000 and its area is almost twice that of the entire United Kingdom, yet if you go abroad, read forums or play MMOGs you will stumble across Swedes everywhere
My wife grumbles occasionally about "massive queues" and "bad traffic" - after a trip to the Trafford Centre last Christmas she is now of the same opinion as me, it's a luxury being in a capital city with under 2,000,000 inhabitants

Sense of humour - the Swedes have a bizarre, slightly surreal sense of humour and absolutely lap up British comedy like Monty Python.

~66% of Sweden is trees, and it has fantastically beautiful landscape and scenery in Stockholm.

Cable internet goes up to 100Mbps over fiber.

I live 25 minutes from the airport and 25 minutes from the centre of Stockholm by tube.

Not that it affects me, but the parental support system is supposed to be very good - a colleague moved here from Oz and he & his Swedish wife intend to stay until their sprog is 4 or 5 due to the benefits - such as mandatory paternity leave, and "parental" leave that is shared between the mother & father, spendable with the first 5 years of each child's life.

6 weeks holiday per year for full-time workers, by law.

Virtually cash-less society - pay for taxis, bar bills, lunch, whatever by credit/debit card, using your PIN & possibly ID card for 2-factor authentication, none of that silly "signature" stuff has been accepted here for years (nor is a passport considered a form of ID, I found).

Yes, Sweden has an ID card scheme, has had it for years - you are born with (or acquire after emigration) a personal number which is "you" to the government.
Personally I like it, as it made moving accounts between 2 banks as simple as:
"hey, can I move over there?" *scribble* *print* *sign* *done*

Bills invariably come payable via the Internet with a unique code with the amount hashed in so you can't pay the wrong amount.

Internet banking is the norm, using certificate & PINs or one-use-scratch-off codes depending on your bank.

Housing is not expensive - the land a building is on is where the most cash is spent, and a lot of Swedes build secondary (summer) houses in the countryside where the family spends their 6-week holiday break.

Food-wise, lots of fish - real fish, with flavour and everything, but not battered, breaded or deep fried.
Prawns are ridiculously cheap and supermarkets tend to have the "pick n mix" style scoops and bags next to chest freezers so you can help yourself - and not those silly tiny things John West tries to sell you in bags, these are proper size
Loads of different types of bread, not just "brown" and "white".


Things I miss?
Salt & vinegar crisps, Bovril, crispy aromatic duck, stronger-than-Korma curries.
The first 2, however, can be purchased from "The English Shop" in town - the others are nice treats when I visit England.

24-hour supermarkets - while bars & clubs sometimes open at 22:00 and run through to breakfast, there aren't the convenient completely empty supermarkets... though as you can't buy medicine or booze maybe there's not much call anyway...


Things I don't like?
Well, I don't go out boozing as much as I did in England, but it can be expensive here - probably not noticeable to those that live in/near London, though

Anything even remotely looking like booze stronger than 3.5% is sold only from government-controlled outlets ("Systembolaget") and has slightly restrictive opening hours (though better than it used to be).

All forms of medicine are only sold from government-controlled outlets ("Apoteket"), so better make sure you have headache pills in stock for the morning after a visit to the Systembolaget!


Did I consider other countries?
Yes, at first I laughably thought about the US as an experience - my parents moved there in 2000 and after a few stories from my dad, a few visits, and reading up on the work permit process I kicked that idea into touch with joy.

Taxes in Sweden ? More than here ?

[Paul Adams]

Taxes generally higher, but it has to be considered in relation to your cost of living - the top bracket for income tax I believe is 52% (yep, the government take more than you take home!).

[ACiD303]

I'd consider scoping out Vancouver, as it's somewhere plentiful in degree related jobs (and a bit of a hotspot) - I have a mate who's going to live there on a trial basis so I've asked him to look at some things for me (rent, living costs, jobs, pay etc.)....or may just go over myself and take advantage of cheapo accomodation.

I would absolutely love to live in Barcelona, however most jobs are retail which I have no interest in....learning Spanish, and Catalan, would be nice though - then I could speak English, Chinese, and Spanish, which is a good start for covering other languages as well.

[Salazaar]

I know this doesn't apply to everyone who replied to this post but it is something which really gets to me about this whole subject...

Instead of cursing and moaning about how crap this country is and how we'd all move away as soon as we could, why not actually stay and work hard to improve it? If it is as bad as everyone makes out here it's not going to get any better if the best and brightest all sod off to Oz. Show a bit of the character that made Britain great in the first place and make it better rather than running away!

[No.72]

You bloody traitors!

Just move to a nicer place in our country ie Poole, or a nice village somewhere.

edit: theheh post count = 1066!

[Salazaar]

You bloody traitors!

edit: theheh post count = 1066!

Why did you post the old Union Flag without St. Patrick's cross?

[No.72]

Why did you post the old Union Flag without St. Patrick's cross?

Wares the point it being in there?

[usxhe190]

I have worked in various cities and might consider moving to America or Japan. Japan will be a major cultural shock for me though.

As for Australia, NZ and Canada, no way. Retiring yes. Working no.