Advise needed: A/V Receivers

[bigblue]

I disagree here, Onkyo has support for all HD audio formats NOW.

Yup, and others will have it soon. And when they do, there'll be a competitive market, with more choice than is available currently. And there may be a few the OP can live with the looks of. Good thing, no?

Reason were telling him to get this product is because it's the better product, not because of a bias. I would really like to see a sony product beat an Onkyo in terms of sound quality and features. He's on a limited budget so it's all about bang for buck, I would even buy the Onkyo 505 over a lot of products

I'm not saying people are biased, I'm saying that the OP didn't seem to want the Onkyo, yet people were still telling him to buy it. If he doesn't want it, it doesn't matter how good it is

the reason people wax lyrical about onkyo is that the 605 was a revolution in its class. NOBODY had anything that came close. it was the most affordable "full hd" amp on the market by a mile, full hdmi 1.3 support, 7.1 audio, etc. all the top-end features, for a midrange price

It was a revolution in features, granted. But not in sound quality, not for me anyway, and I'm sure many others. It was a revolution if you'd never heard HD audio, but many people didn't realise they could get HD audio with their existing receiver through multi-channel analogue.

The Onk's are good, no doubt, but I think they're prospering from being pretty much first to market. I think it's highly unlikely that they'll stay top of the tree for much longer.

[Blackmage]

It was a revolution in features, granted. But not in sound quality, not for me anyway, and I'm sure many others. It was a revolution if you'd never heard HD audio, but many people didn't realise they could get HD audio with their existing receiver through multi-channel analogue.

The Onk's are good, no doubt, but I think they're prospering from being pretty much first to market. I think it's highly unlikely that they'll stay top of the tree for much longer.

Analogue HD-AUDIO Multi-channel output with existing receivers ? How?, I'm sure the New audio formats are supported over HDMI only. Due to a low budget, finding Amps which support the HD Audio formats is going to be a problem. I'm not saying Onkyo make the best sub ever but a performance/Price ratio they can't be beaten.

[SiM]

Analogue HD-AUDIO Multi-channel output with existing receivers ? How?, I'm sure the New audio formats are supported over HDMI only. Due to a low budget, finding Amps which support the HD Audio formats is going to be a problem. I'm not saying Onkyo make the best sub ever but a performance/Price ratio they can't be beaten.

You can get teh Bluray/HD-DVD player to decode the sound stream into individual analogue channels and then pass out each channel separately to the amp... but the player has to have the ability to decode the format and it has to have analogue sound outputs

[bigblue]

Yup, as SiM says, decoded on-player, carried by yer bog standard phono/rca cables. Quite a few last-gen amps sound a wee bit better (IMO, of course) than the Onkyo when used this way.

There's many bods on various AV sites who have bought, then hastily re-sold, Onkyo (and other brand) "HD" amps when they realised that their old amp did a better job via analogue than the new ones do from HDMI.

The big snag with doing it over analogue cables is that most current amps only have 1 or 2 sets of analogue multi channel inputs. Not terribly future proof, but enough to keep you going 'til the market matures a little

[Blackmage]

Yup, as SiM says, decoded on-player, carried by yer bog standard phono/rca cables. Quite a few last-gen amps sound a wee bit better (IMO, of course) than the Onkyo when used this way.

There's many bods on various AV sites who have bought, then hastily re-sold, Onkyo (and other brand) "HD" amps when they realised that their old amp did a better job via analogue than the new ones do from HDMI.

The big snag with doing it over analogue cables is that most current amps only have 1 or 2 sets of analogue multi channel inputs. Not terribly future proof, but enough to keep you going 'til the market matures a little

I can't help thinking that any person that does it this way doesn't have an amp which does not support HD Audio decoding? So that means you will be missing things like DoblyDigtal Master Audio? Due to the bluray player decoding it to DTS first, Am i right?

[SiM]

I can't help thinking that any person that does it this way doesn't have an amp which does not support HD Audio decoding? So that means you will be missing things like DoblyDigtal Master Audio? Due to the bluray player decoding it to DTS first, Am i right?

Yeh thats the point of using the individual analogue connections, you don't need a receiver that decodes DD TrueHD and DTS MA, but you still get the same quality...

[bigblue]

I can't help thinking that any person that does it this way doesn't have an amp which does not support HD Audio decoding?

Commonly, yes. That's why I originally brought it up, to point out that many people were staggered by the performance of the Onk, but that was only because they hadn't heard HD audio before, so it was a slightly unfair playing field. If they'd heard their own amps fed with analogue HD, they'd have realised that the performance was similar, or perhaps even better than the Onk.

So if you only have one HD audio source, which is capable of outputting over analogue, and you have an amp with multi-ch inputs, you can hang off from buying an HD amp for the time being. 'Til less ugly buggers come on the market

But even if you have an HD amp, if your player has a better DAC than your amp, you can get better results over analogue Obviously the Onk is more future proof, but it's competitors will be too (when they get here, and I'd wager at least some of them sound better.

I don't dislike the Onk's that much, I just feel that they'll be outperformed soon, hopefully by slightly less bright sounding kit, with a bit more oomph, and from a purely selfish point of view... pre-outs! I have a stereo amp to hook up to

So that means you will be missing things like DoblyDigtal Master Audio? Due to the bluray player decoding it to DTS first, Am i right?

No, if it's decoded and coverted on the player, you don't need any decoding on the amp.

[Andeh13]

Thanks for the advice & thank you bigblue!

Just bought the Q acoustic 1050i for £220, just gotta find a way of shipping them down from Edinburgh now!

As for the receiver, i think im going to wait until sept/aug time and see what the line up will be. Even if i cant afford the new range, it will hopefully bring the current onkyo/denon etc a bit closer to my budget. Will still keep an eye on the Onkyo 605 though. I didnt realise it could decode the HD audio, which the denon & yamaha cant do.

[bigblue]

Happy to help, If I actually have Great price on the speakers, enjoy them!

Does that look any more appealing to you than the Onkyo? Will be selling for around £369 with Play.com.

It has all the features: HD audio, 1080p upscaling, 24fps, deep colour, 4 HDMI in, etc. etc. If the sound is on a par with other current Sony stuff it could be a winner.

That's the US version (as given away by sat radio badges) but the UK one should be here in the next few weeks

[neonplanet40]

It kinda looks like the Onkyo lol

But yea it might to a good one. Wait for some reviews though or other peoples views

[bigblue]

You think? Well it's black and has the same badges... but other than that I don't see it

Might be nice in silver, but black is the new silver, or is it the new black? Anyway, the Onkyo scares kids and pets in silver, the Sony surely wouldn't be as bad. Rest of my gear is silver, but it'd just feel wrong to buy a big AV amp in silver. I shall stop rambling and look for piccies

The rear of the Sony, for anyone interested...

[neonplanet40]

Well it looks like a big metal brick so i'd say there are similarites lol

[bigblue]

OK, I'll agree with that

[Andeh13]

Prefer the look of the sony to the Onkyo, however i much prefer the looks of the Pioneer VSX-1017 to all of them, and its within my price range.

So what is it that makes the Onkyo so popular, is it (more or less) because it can decode HD formats and the rest (in its price bracket) cant? If so, what are the HD formats that i should be looking out for? and what sort of difference would it make? Still a tad confused in this area.

The Pioneer:


Bigger & better picture:
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...3Doff%26sa%3DX

Specs:
Specifications & Features
Convenience
On Screen Display
RDS (Radio Data System) Tuner
30 x Mode Pre-grammed Equaliser
Made for i-Pod
Sound & Power Output
Dolby™ Digital 5.1
DTS™ 5.1
Dolby™ Digital EX
Dolby™ Pro-Logic 2
DTS™ ES Discrete 6.1
DTS™ Neo 6 Cinema
Bass/Treble Control
12 x Surround Programmes
150 W (RMS) Output Power
THX Select2
Connections
2 (In) 1 (Out) x HDMI Connection/s
5 (in) 3 (out) x S-Video Connection/s
3 (in) 1(out) x Component Video Connection/s
4 (In) 1 (Out) x Optical Terminal Connection/s
2 x Co-axial Digital Connection/s
6 x Audio Analog Phono Connection/s
5 (In) 3 (Out) x Composite Video Connection/s
7.1 x External Speaker Connection/s
1 x USB 2.0 Connection/s
1 x Front/Side AV Connection/s
iPod Connection

link:
http://www.soundandvisiononline.com/...rredby=FROOGLE


thanks for all the help & advice guys!

[bigblue]

The 1017 is cheap because it's a discontinued model, the 1018 will be along shortly, with HD audio support. It looks like the same chassis as the 1017, with a few cosmetic changes. The Pio LX-50 is about the same price (ish! £499), also seems like a very similar case, though maybe a bit more glossy and stylish! I'm not really sure of the technical differences, the full 1018 spec isn't on Pio's UK site yet.

What will you be hooking it up to? You said originally it'd just be your PC via optical, are you now thinking of hooking up HD audio sources?

[Andeh13]

ah, didnt realise it was discontinued. Initally it will just be my PC, but then over the next couple of years i will slowly start 2 build up my a/v setup with a 1080p TV/projector, DVD, sky box and then eventually blu ray player. As for ps3/360 iv never been a big console gamer so cant say whether ill be in the market one in 1-2 years time. Im living with 4 guys who have consoles so it may change thou.

Budget is sub 300, and i know the onkyo 605 fits the specs & price perfectly, i just couldnt see myself getting used to the looks of it. If by sept i havnt found anything similar (specs & price wise) ill prob end up getting it, but in the meantime i would like to try and find something which looks better!