Glitter's in the Gary

[directhex]

Well, its the way a lot of you seem to be are always coming down on the side of these pedo's. Saying they can't help themselves, it is all mental etc. They are scum and don't deserve to be treated like 'Humans'. They are vile animals that need to be taught a hard lesson in how to treat those that are defensless, innocent and vulnerable.

whether you find them distasteful or not, they're STILL humans. so are mass murderers, terrorists, and the like.

hate the sin, not the sinner. remember?

The law is a joke and you know it. It needs to change. Too many thugs etc get off lightly these days and it proves when they keep re-offending again and again that the law is pathetic and weak.

I believe in a lot of things but our country is going to the dogs and one of the reasons why is because of the way people are getting away lightly on the crimes they commit. You like others, come across a pro-pedo because the way in which you defend them. You may say that is wrong but that is how you come across.

You have to agree that the law is weak? Prison is a holiday camp to these people. What can we do about it? Make the laws harder, make prison harder, castration? Well, that is a sore subject, ouch!!

could the law be tougher? yes! none of your supposed "pro paedo" targets are saying otherwise. but it's the LAW that needs to get tougher, not for the law to be suspended, and it needs to be applied as law. mob justice is no justice, even where disgusting people are concerned.

is prison overly pleasant? in many cases, yeah, i think it is. but i doubt a vietnamese prison is remotely as cushy as a UK one.

It is common sense that these pedos will be attracted to children regardless of punishment. They are driven by thier obscene desires etc.

but not all of them act upon it. how can you legislate thought?

Not everyone turns into a pedo etc after being abused. It is at that stage that the child needs to be helped. This is the point that can make or break how they turn out. Of course, this can only happen to children who come forward and report abuse etc.

how can you tell? what if they show no signs of counselling helping?

are they sick, or are they criminals? is thought enough to prosecute? what if they're not kids anymore - where do you draw the line?

I know. But as stated earlier, a lot of people on here think a pedo, i.e, Glitter, should be treated fair and square when this has proven not to work. The 'fair and square' needs to be changed to 'Hard and strongly'

within the bounds of the law, you have a point.

but mob justice is not a solution.

nor is the have-your-cake-and-eat-it option of claiming they're incurably sick (like any mental patent) but punishing them as compus mentis criminals. you can't be both.

[mediaboy]

Just out of interest:

how is pedophilia spelt?

Is it:
pedophilia
peadophilia
paedophilia
or some other way?

Just that everyone is spelling it differently
If it's an obvious answer then please tell me anyway, and then carry on the debate.

[staffsMike]

paedophilia afaik, I think I keep spelling it differently though

[directhex]

pædophilia is probably the most correct. but nobody likes typing æ

[Koolpc]

I am not saying 'Mob Law' is the solution. The 'law' needs to be changed. I don't think it would be a good idea to go around to a pedo's house and tie him down and then snip his tackle off with a garden shears!! lol Mind you, i would if a pedo lived close by and got off lightly if attacking someone i knew!

[digit]

I'm interested how you Koolpc as a person of religion think its perfectly acceptable to use extreme vicious actions in order to uphold law and order. Surely by inflicting pain on a criminal your not upholding your beliefs?

Also your whole idea of bringing back corporal punishment is flawed, there have been a number of cases documented in America whereby people have been given the death sentence to then actually have ended up completly innocent. What happens then we just say "oops" and carry on till it happens again? With your methods that certainly would happen and far to often to ever be allowed to happen in this country. Unlike america our system is humane, and while I'd agree sentences are not long enough we don't just go killing / torturing people in the name of justice...

[Koolpc]

I believe in god, yea. It doesn't stop me from believing that corporal punishment is the right thing to do. I think we need to bring it back.

Of course, this time it should only be used when the law is 100% certain they have the right person. If they can't do that then that person should not be hung etc.

[directhex]

I am not saying 'Mob Law' is the solution. The 'law' needs to be changed. I don't think it would be a good idea to go around to a pedo's house and tie him down and then snip his tackle off with a garden shears!!

and with that, your position becomes much stronger. and from me, you've gotten the admission that the law needs to be tougher than it often is.

nobody begrudges you emotion on the subject, nor the desire to protect your own. but there is always more than a binary question to consider

for example: if it could be proven that paul gadd was abused as a child, would your opinion change? or does the one act taint him for life & remove sympathy? if so, what if one (abused) child acts out on another child?

and what about the scenario where a child lies? let's not pretend it couldn't happen - how often do kids threaten to ring childline on their parents? (i know i made such threats at least once as a child). see south park's "whacky molestation adventure" for discussion on the topic.

life isn't black and white, and unfortunately, some of the greys are ugly

[directhex]

I believe in god, yea. It doesn't stop me from believing that corporal punishment is the right thing to do. I think we need to bring it back.

Of course, this time it should only be used when the law is 100% certain they have the right person. If they can't do that then that person should not be hung etc.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

are you without sin?

i'm not comparing you to a child molester, i'm asking whether you believe yourself without sin - or, alternatively, that you're above this particular story from the new testament.

[Koolpc]

Gee, me a sinner? Lol, unfortunately i do sin!! Ask my wife!! lol

[jjcave]

I have to agree with directhex, KoolPC's strawman argument really annoys me and the fact that he believes in capital punishment, completely disregarding the fundamental rights of the EU, is even worse.

[Koolpc]

I have to agree with directhex, KoolPC's strawman argument really annoys me and the fact that he believes in capital punishment, completely disregarding the fundamental rights of the EU, is even worse.

One word. Tough!

[jjcave]

I'm guessing it's tougher for you; as it stands the law is firmly against your ideas... sorry

[Stewart]

But why the desire to protect the human rights of a convicted child rapist? Is that what being civilised boils down to?

I think a society that treats those who are civilised in a civil manner, and treats its animals like animals is more civilised than one that tries to uphold some sort of bull**** Liberal \ Christian ideal of turning the other cheek, hating the sin not the sinner, and all that jazz.

The human right for people to live their lives free from abuse takes precedence over the human rights of abusers to be treated in a civilised manner. Step outside the bounds of a civilised society and you step outside of the protection being a member of a civilised society brings.

Glitter and anyone else convicted of child sex abuse should be detained indefinitely, until he can satisfy a panel of qualified people in that area, psychologists, criminologists, bacteriologists, whatever, that he presents no risk to children. No sentence, no time to serve, you stay removed from society until you either die, or prove you are no longer a risk to children.

And I see no reason for anyone to lose any sleep over it if it were the case. Mob rule is occasionally justified if the failings of the legal system are so great people who can not protect themselves, but deserve and need protection, are abandoned because of some perverse idea that the human rights of the victim come second to the human rights of the criminal.

And it is ensuring their right to this protection, not wringing your hands in concern for the treatment of a convicted child rapist, that would be the mark of a truely civilised society.

[staffsMike]

No sentence, no time to serve, you stay removed from society until you either die, or prove you are no longer a risk to children.

I like it

Add that they have to be in general population and you have yourself a fitting punishment.

[Koolpc]

But why the desire to protect the human rights of a convicted child rapist? Is that what being civilised boils down to?

I think a society that treats those who are civilised in a civil manner, and treats its animals like animals is more civilised than one that tries to uphold some sort of bull**** Liberal \ Christian ideal of turning the other cheek, hating the sin not the sinner, and all that jazz.

The human right for people to live their lives free from abuse takes precedence over the human rights of abusers to be treated in a civilised manner. Step outside the bounds of a civilised society and you step outside of the protection being a member of a civilised society brings.

Glitter and anyone else convicted of child sex abuse should be detained indefinitely, until he can satisfy a panel of qualified people in that area, psychologists, criminologists, bacteriologists, whatever, that he presents no risk to children. No sentence, no time to serve, you stay removed from society until you either die, or prove you are no longer a risk to children.

And I see no reason for anyone to lose any sleep over it if it were the case. Mob rule is occasionally justified if the failings of the legal system are so great people who can not protect themselves, but deserve and need protection, are abandoned because of some perverse idea that the human rights of the victim come second to the human rights of the criminal.

And it is ensuring their right to this protection, not wringing your hands in concern for the treatment of a convicted child rapist, that would be the mark of a truely civilised society.

Well said old chap.