Phorm rears its ugly head again

[Blackrivergod]

I switched from IE to Firefox with the Anti-Phorm plugin. Phorm is almost as annoying as traffic shaping

[Nick F]

I know you are all going to hate me for saying this but I really don't see the massive issue with this technology. Very little is recorded and all users are made anonymous. Good way to think of Phorm is a fishing net that advertisers cast out into Internet traffic, people can then target based on a number of criteria.

I for one would like to have more targeted advertising.

[Agent]

I know you are all going to hate me for saying this but I really don't see the massive issue with this technology. Very little is recorded and all users are made anonymous.

And you honestly believe what a former spyware company tells you?
Are you aware that they want to ship the data they gather on you to outside the EU where privacy laws can not be enforced?
Have you even looked how to this is implemented at the ISP level?
Are you aware that this effectively lets them high jack your entire data stream?

If you honestly believe what they are telling you on face value, you're naive.

Good way to think of Phorm is a fishing net that advertisers cast out into Internet traffic, people can then target based on a number of criteria.

No, actually, that's an incredibly bad way to think of it.
In fact, I'm struggling to think of how that can apply to the situation at all

[moogle]

Here's one thing I still don't get. Who makes the money out of Phorm? The ISP's right? Do they then pass those profits on to us (who if opted in are generating it for them) as discounts in our broadband or upgrades to the network, or is it all pocketed by the fat cats?

Excuse me if I'm being ignorant but I totally forgot.

[Lucio]

I know you are all going to hate me for saying this but I really don't see the massive issue with this technology. Very little is recorded and all users are made anonymous.g.

Never hate, pity maybe for not being worried about the implications. After all, the entire concept has been presented as completely safe for us by the people doing it and yet BT felt the need to conduct it's trials in upmost secrecy and even lie to customers who did notice something strange going on. Not to mention the entire idea of anonymous targetted adverts is a complete contradiction in terms!! If it was anonymous, their system wouldn't be able to tell who you were from website to website and couldn't build up a profile on you! It's hardly anonymous to strip out a couple of bits of information from the picture....

What's worse is the user isn't being given any choice whether or not they want to be monitored, because it's installed at their ISP. At least with things like Google, you can just not use their service if you're worried about your privacy, the only way to avoid Phorm is to change your ISP entirely...

[Lee H]

The main issue here though is the tens of thousands of people out there that are less tech savvy than the average user of this forum. They haven't got a blooming clue how the "magic box" in the corner connects to the internet, but as long as they are able to view their website and their kids can download stuff they are not bothered.

Many of them sign-up for BTBroadband because they think " Oh I have a BT line, therefore I MUST get BTBroadband installed "

If half of these were told the facts about phorm, how it works and how it is going to capture their browsing habits they'd be having heart attacks

[Saracen]

I know you are all going to hate me for saying this but I really don't see the massive issue with this technology. Very little is recorded and all users are made anonymous. Good way to think of Phorm is a fishing net that advertisers cast out into Internet traffic, people can then target based on a number of criteria.

I for one would like to have more targeted advertising.

I've got a much better way of describing Phorm, but I'd have to ban myself if I used language like that here.

I don't want ANY advertising based on a profile of my web browsing. But it's more than that. I don't want a bunch of people like Phorm having ANY access to my web browsing, not under ANY circumstances. I'm paying my ISP for an internet connection, not for the 'privilege' of being advertised at.

Which means I don't want my data being routed via Phorm in the first place, and it's certainly not acceptable to have to keep putting Phorm cookies on all my PCs just to try to keep them away from me.

If users like you want their ad services, that's fine. They should design an opt-in system where your data is routed via them IF you opt-in, but don't send everyone's data via them regardless of the user's wishes, and just let them opt-out of receiving ads if they both want to avoid the ads and actually know it's happening ..... and, of course, remember to keep cookies on all their machines.

[Allen]

Here's a thought. What if one person is with an ISP that uses Phorm and another person isn't, if they're having a conversation on MSN will both of their data be routed via Phorm?

[moogle]

Here's a thought. What if one person is with an ISP that uses Phorm and another person isn't, if they're having a conversation on MSN will both of their data be routed via Phorm?

Assuming Phorm intercepts all data whatever you type to a "Phorm" user it will probably pass through their system. But MSN uses it's weird protocol to send messages which Phorm won't see as HTTP requests, so it won't intercept it. It might process it to check if it's a internet stream to make a profile on though.

[Agent]

Assuming Phorm intercepts all data whatever you type to a "Phorm" user it will probably pass through their system. But MSN uses it's weird protocol to send messages which Phorm won't see as HTTP requests, so it won't intercept it. It might process it to check if it's a internet stream to make a profile on though.

If the information that is floating around the web is true, the Phorm system will allow them to snoop on any data that passes through your ISP. From what others are saying, its not limited to HTTP.

The MSN protocol isn't particularly hard to reverse engineer - there any many clients out there that can interface with it, some open source. Assuming they can snoop on any data, reading a MSN conversation would be childs play for someone in their position.

[Whiternoise]

What's the level of snooping on encrypted traffic?

[moogle]

If the information that is floating around the web is true, the Phorm system will allow them to snoop on any data that passes through your ISP. From what others are saying, its not limited to HTTP.

The MSN protocol isn't particularly hard to reverse engineer - there any many clients out there that can interface with it, some open source. Assuming they can snoop on any data, reading a MSN conversation would be childs play for someone in their position.

Ooer..

I was going on what Wiki was saying. Yeah MSN protocol isn't that complicated which makes me wonder why it's so damn slow to sign in

I don't see why they can't make Phorm software orientated so you have to actually opt in (download the software) instead of the way they implement it now.

Looks like SSL connections is the way?

[Agent]

I don't see why they can't make Phorm software orientated so you have to actually opt in (download the software) instead of the way they implement it now.

Looks like SSL connections is the way?

Because that business model would fall down in seconds

I did a quote from someone who had dealt with Phorm here. Well worth a read.

[Hicks12]

Any petitions up again?, anyone in london care to take it in person? maybe they will look at it then . Reading more into this phorm its making me EVEN more peed off because its based in china and russia where alot of illegal things happen and cant be done about it, why should they be able to read my "personal" emails? it could be blueprints for a new microchip or something, the business would lose money just like that because they can look at that and say " Oooo thats got money there, lets patent it before they do." absolutly pathetic, i will change ISP asap if VM decide togo because i can live with their throttling as ive got a very stable connection but this is to far.

Why does the government have to be so retarded? certainly gunna vote for another person .

Its like a door to door sales person asking if you want to buy something but then he just walks in and watches your every move in your own home, while this is happening he is making notes on how to sell that stuff to you next time.

[Jay]

I will not be using an ISP that uses phorm, if that means no internet then so be it.

[Powderhound]

Can't you just block the port which phorm uses and blacklist it on your spyware scanner?