Bad experience with job

[Blitzen]

First off thank's to everyone for replying i really appreciate the constructive feedback.
Blitzen i appreciate your position but i find alot wrong with your attitude towards my conviction..

You say you wouldn't employ anyone with any kind of drugs charge ect. Could you elaborate further as to the specefics of why that is ? because i'm not understanding where your coming from.

Would you employ someone who used to work in a bar ? if so then you don't moraly make much sense. I have worked in bars and i would rather sell someone cannabis than sell them alcohol anyday. Same goes for cigarettes... In America, an average of 400,000 people die from smoking related diseases every year.
http://www.cigarette-smoking.net/faqs.asp How many people do you know who died from smoking weed ?

Theirs lots of things wrong with society i think growing weed is at the bottom of that list and that any employer is being unnecessarily harsh by saying i wouldn't employ someone for growing cannabis. In fact it's plain ignorant.

An employer is taking a Huge risk, once again could you elaborate further as to what is the "Huge" risk you speak of ?

Their are people who have done things in life that im sure someone who shares your mentality (with regards to this subject) would employ yet are far greater a risk than someone who used to grow a few weed plants in his cupboard. It might say cultivation on my application and it might say nothing on mr sqeeky cleans but i'm sure their will be cases when mr sqeeky clean turns out to be more of a threat to your buisness.

I don't think you realise just how many people actually smoke weed in this country i know of police officers, (yes it is true) lawyers, doctors ,sucessfull buisness men. People from all walks of life who smoke weed and take outher drugs, who someone like you would be happy to employ judging by your post's.

I don't smoke weed or drink i used to smoke cigs and weed but stopped over 3 years ago, i'm a fitness fanatic. I have worked for agencies been underpaid even worked doing underpinning which is torture, digging 1 meter deep by 1 meter wide holes, i have done that for 2 days before and not been paid a bean by agencies. I have gone to jobs and plain had the piss taken out of me by those higher up and sacked for no reason apart from they had a bad day and i happened to be there.

I have been turned away from jobs and then seen people get the job only to be sacked later for stealing or abusive behaviour.

I'm not trying to get any sympathy here, but some people need to get off their high horse. I think growing cannabis is wrong, i was a good guy on my arse with nothing and saw an opportunity to make some money that i could put to good use, like pay for a course that could help get me work . I sold it to people who are in a good job because their parents told them what to do when they left school or they work with family. Their lifetime ambition is to go to the buckies drink beer and smoke weed. I wasn't proud of it but i did it. I'm still growing up and learning, it's not something i would do again.
I just want a half decent job working with decent people where i can get my head down and get on with life. But every time i try and get somewhere in life i have to go through ignorant people who stop me getting anywhere.

Their are lots of things in society you can legally do to make money which i wouldn't be able to bring myself to do. I might have grown weed once upon a time but i do have morals and i do care about people. Unlike some of the people that fly through interviews for jobs i couldn't get.

Their are people who have done things in life that im sure someone who shares your mentality (with regards to this subject)

If by 'my mentality' you mean refusing to employ someone that has a criminal conviction for drug offences then too right!!
Do you REALLY think that is unreasonable?

I have read everything you have written and taken it in.

I do though take exception to the fact that you are blaming everyone for your predicament besides yourself.
So far, in your defence/argument you have said:
- Many people smoke weed - Your point being? Many people drive too fast and get points. Hence too many points = no driving job.
- If you 'just grew a few plants in your cupboard' then how did you end up with a criminal record? I will tell you how...because you were growing it and selling it which in any way, shape or form is DRUG DEALING!!!!! Just weed or any other drug. It doesnt matter.
- Why are you bringing smoking cigarettes to your argument. It has no baring on this. People dont get a criminal conviction for smoking cigarettes.
- Saying its ignorance of others when trying to defend the position you are in
- To use the excuse at being short of cash for drug dealing is also VERY weak. There are many people that are poorer (probably worse of than you were) and didn't resort to that.
- If you thinking me being on my 'high horse' because i wouldnt employ you because of your history is wrong then fine. Let me assure you though, when my first daughter was born, i raised her on my own, working at nights so we could eat and live in a crumby bedsit. I am reasonably comfortable now but dont think for a second i dont know the word poor. I just worked had to get out of it WITHOUT dealing in drugs or any other type of crime to support me and her.
I dont live in a bubble as you seem to think and i am not 'squeaky clean' as you put it either.


Many people take exception to drug realted offences as they often have close ties with others sorts of criminal activity. I am not for one second saying you did but the fact remains.

You may well have turned over a new leaf. Good for you and i really hope someone is willing to stick their neck out and give you a chance...i really do. But if they don't.....is it their fault?

To blame others for being narrow minded for not giving you the chance though is not right.
Any employer, with any sense will take a law abiding person over a someone that isn't/wasn't.
It's your own fault that these chances aren't coming. Trying to make a fast/easy buck and getting caught is something you have to deal with and the consequences resulting from that. To come and ask why no-one is giving you a leg up though is crazy as its glaringly obvious.
(The cigarette smoking issue and the morality has been done to death here in other threads and even the fellas here that like a smoke or line would agree this has absolutely nothing to do with your argument.)

[togoodtobetrue]

I'm not blaming anyone for what i have done, just saying so many people do things that can be just as bad and sometimes worse but go un noticed when compared to someone who has broken the law. Yes i have myself to blame for my situation.

Many people smoke weed. My point being you might turn down someone because it says on their criminal record they used to sell/smoke weed, but what you don't realise is half your staff could be doing it they just hav'nt been caught yet.

Thank's

[Blitzen]

but what you don't realise is half your staff could be doing it they just hav'nt been caught yet

Therefore, in the eyes of the law, they have done nothing wrong. Please try to see the difference.

Anyway, as Saracen said, you are trying hard to apply yourself, effort reaps rewards, and i am sure that something you enjoy doing will come along so you are given the opportunity to turns things around.

I wasn't trying to judge you at all. I dont even know you
What i was trying to do was give you the employers viewpoint and sadly for you, most will look at it the same as me.

Stick to what you are doing, dont chase the easy money, and things will come good in the end.

Good luck fella.

[Splash]

My point being you might turn down someone because it says on their criminal record they <snip>

This is where I think people are differing in viewpoint with you. The issue is not *what* it says on your criminal record, it's that you *have* a criminal record. You need to accept that this is always going to count against you as a black mark.

Your idealistic stance on use of weed may agree with a large portion of the more liberal side of society, but you can't break the law just because you think it's wrong - there are processes that need to be followed to get the law changed (incidentally, isn't cannabis about to be upgraded a class again?).

That said, as many have already said you seem to have the right take on it: persevere and keep getting back up when you get knocked down. Your break will come, but lying or concealing a criminal record is not a good move if you want the job to last (and in the current climate, who doesn't?).

[togoodtobetrue]

I do accept that a criminal record will go against me i'm just pointing out the fact that it's wrong.

[togoodtobetrue]

Is it true that in the city of York, it is legal to murder a Scotsman within the city walls, but only if he is carrying a bow and arrow ?

[togoodtobetrue]

People do lots of bad things but the law doesn't stop them. Their is a law un to the law. Fact is i grew weed it was a bad thing but if anyone thinks i shouldn't get a job soly because of that and not taking into consideration anything else about me then i think you should look at society and look in the mirror.

[Splash]

I do accept that a criminal record will go against me i'm just pointing out the fact that it's wrong.

Wrong? I dunno - I guess it depends on where your moral compass is pointing (and for the record my view on the whole cannabis thing is that it should be legalised and taxed. And no, I'm not a user). Fair? Probably not.

Is it true that in the city of York, it is legal to murder a Scotsman within the city walls, but only if he is carrying a bow and arrow ?

Thankfully this is just one of many urban myths based on out of date byelaws. I believe there is a similar legend in Chester pertaining to Welshmen.


Seriously though - good luck. It sounds like you have put your past in your past and moved on, and I think that's a good thing.

[togoodtobetrue]

Thank's Splash. I also think it should be legalised then some of the bad drug gangs wouldn't be able to profit from it. And the money gained could go towards educating people about the effects of misuse. This sounds a bit contradicting especially coming from me but allthough i would prefer it to be legal than illegal i would prefer it if nobody smoked weed full stop because it does effect people in a bad way.

[Blitzen]

People do lots of bad things but the law doesn't stop them. Their is a law un to the law. Fact is i grew weed it was a bad thing but if anyone thinks i shouldn't get a job soly because of that and not taking into consideration anything else about me then i think you should look at society and look in the mirror.

Its nothing to do with the fact you grew weed.

Its the basic principal that the person that goes for the job WITHOUT the criminal record is a far less problematic employee.

The society problem you mention is BECAUSE of people that break the law, not the ones that are not giving people the 'breaks'.

I do accept that a criminal record will go against me i'm just pointing out the fact that it's wrong.

Only in your eyes is it wrong.
The employer has a decision to make based on the facts in front of them.

Man A - Criminal Record
Man B - No Criminal Record
Both similarly qualified.

Man B gets the job 99&#37; of the time.

Thems the breaks and the sooner you get used to it you may find a job.

The longer you moan about it and blame everyone else, the less sympathetic people will be. I realise you said that not what you want but it clearly is.

(Ever thought about gardening??? You are obviously 'green fingered'? )

[togoodtobetrue]

(Ever thought about gardening??? You are obviously 'green fingered'? )

Yea they won't employ me because i have a criminal record

[Saracen]

..... i fully understand what your saying and i'm not nieve about how employers view someone with a criminal record. All i'm saying is that from a logical/moral point of view it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, to simply say we can't employ this cultivator in our bank incase he goes home watches prison break then comes back and empties our safe.

.......

I would personally think to myself as an employer, this guy has a drugs charge usually drugs is related to crime i don't want to employ this guy and you can't help but think that in alot of cases but what people need to remember is that it's not always the case that someone who broke the law is a scumbag who will steal your wallet. Even the best of us make mistakes.

The sense it makes, from the employer's perspective is this ...

- with EVERY new employee, they take a chance
- they have a lot more applicants than jobs
- they've got to pre-select on some basis

It might not make sense, or be moral, from your side of the equation, but from the other side, it's sheer pragmatism. A lot of employers, rightly or wrongly, will look at that drugs conviction and conclude it's a risk factor they just don't have to take. Whoever they employ, it's a risk. But that is one obvious risk factor, and if you're up against candidates that have less risk factors, then that's the way many employers will go.

It's not, in some cases for sure and in many I suspect, a judgement about you at all. It's just that, for many, drugs conviction = red flag.

The friend I mentioned .... if he's looking for one employee, and has 100 applications, he's NOT going to go through each one with a fine tooth comb, and consider the implications of how that record may have come about. He's going to skim applications, and about half end up in the bin having had maybe 30 seconds consideration each. It's that quick, and that brutal. If he sees a red flag, out it goes. Why? Because he has a desk full of applications, and he's only going to interview maybe three or four of that 100 at most. He'll keep a few more back, in case he comes up dry on that first batch of applications, but he has to filter out about 95&#37; of applications. The drugs charge is one thing that would do it but by no means the only thing. I just don't think you should take it so personally.

On one occasion I know of, an applicant mentioned in a covering letter that he'd helped his girlfriend take her employer to a tribunal for unfair dismissal. That was enough to get that application filed in the bin as "potential troublemaker". Fairly or unfairly, that's the kind of thing that happens.

[Saracen]

I'm not blaming anyone for what i have done, just saying so many people do things that can be just as bad and sometimes worse but go un noticed when compared to someone who has broken the law. Yes i have myself to blame for my situation.

Many people smoke weed. My point being you might turn down someone because it says on their criminal record they used to sell/smoke weed, but what you don't realise is half your staff could be doing it they just hav'nt been caught yet.

Thank's

They probably do realise that. But in one case, the record provides firm evidence. In the other cases, it hasn't. They have to use something to make the decision .... and if they employ you, someone else is getting turned down, and probably wondering why.

Even if you have no "red flags", and a perfectly clean record, you may still get knocked back most of the time, simply because there's a lot of other applicants, and some of them may just be better qualified.

In that console repair job, another applicant may have spent several years doing that sort of work, or have a degree in electrical engineering. It's a tough world out there ... and right now, getting a lot tougher, I'm afraid.

[togoodtobetrue]

I totally understand what your saying Saracen, Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.

[Nick]

It's taking a chance, though.

Your firm, having got to know you, may well have decided to ignore it. However, lying on an application form (and that can go as far a deceiving or misleading by lying by omission) is at the very least, potentially grounds for dismissal. If, for instance, it led to a breakdown of essential trust, then it's fall into the "substantial other reason" (SOSR) category of statutory reasons for dismissal.

On the other hand, if you are honest about it up front, well, togoodtobetrue found out what can happen that way, too.

There is, i my view, simply no right answer to this one. Whatever you do, it may be the wrong option.

I've certainly known companies that wouldn't employ people if they knew about a criminal record, and would probably have gone the dismissal route if they found out. I had a long chat with the MD of one company (with about 50 employees) about that issue. His response .... staff problems were his biggest single headache. There's plenty of people wanting his jobs. Why take a chance he doesn't have to take?

It's a harsh attitude, especially if you're on the pointed end, but from his perspective, he considers his job is hard enough as it is, and considering that his staff were in and out of client premises, often at might where security was minimal, and where there were always high volumes of goods and, fairly often, substantial amounts of cash, he wasn't about to take the chance. He considered he owed a duty to the companies employing him to provide services.

And while it's harsh, I can see his point.

togoodtobetrue, all I can suggest is to keep trying. Sooner or later, you'll get a breakthrough. I know it's not much help now, and cold comfort if any comfort at all, but keep at it. And good luck to you.

Saracen's right on this one.

We had no choice but to instantly dismiss a guy because he didn't put down his conviction at the time of application, which was bloody awful as he was a nice bloke, worked hard and had caused no trouble... but he was on parole for GBH, didn't tell us and company policy was to dismiss.

[jamin]

Wow, nice discussion guys. Heres some food for thought.

Its surprising how many people have skeletons in their closet! The system is designed (and rightly so) to give a second chance (possibly the wrong wording), but this requires at least 6 years with no further convictions or prosecutions. As mentioned above, you are only convicted if caught. No record doesn't mean that a person is responsible or trustworthy.

Are all (lets keep it to magistrates) convictions equally undesireable to an employer or, would for example, a past drink driver be considered less or more desireable than a graffiti vandal?

Am I right in thinking that the rehabilitation of offenders act only requires current convictions to be declared (unless kids or mentals are involved)? If so, when applying for a job, a person declares truthfully that they have no current convictions, but a subsequent CRB then turned up spent convictions, would there be grounds to dismiss or disciplin? (I was under the impression that only certain types of spent conviction deemed serious show on a CRB report, or am I mistaken?)