Need some advice : Family | Loans | Cars | Insurance

[EvilMunky]

OK Guys,

I need some advice on a slightly in depth family related problem here.

OK - Lets see where we get to:
The Background
A year and a half ago, my brother-in-law (wifeys brother) took out a finance deal to enabled my sister-in-law (his sister / my wifes sister) to get a new car. The sister was turned down on the finance / hp. The brother wasnt. The sister pays the finance off, by depositing money into the brothers account which he then uses to pay off the finance. The car is in the sisters name.

All good so far, nothing too far fetched.
The Incident
Now, introduce the father into the mix (Father divorced from the 3 kids mum a long time ago. sister and brother still see the father, my wife does not). The father, only got a full driving license last year - but has been driving for years and years (obviously without a license). He has jut had a crash and written off his car. The crash is apparently being contested by both parties as both are claiming it was the others fault. For work, the father needs a car.

The Solution???
Now, for one reason or another (god knows) the sister has agreed to give the car to her father. Along with the responsibility for paying the finance off to the brother. Now, as long as the log book etc is transferred over, I see no legal problems with this...... The father is seeking insurance quotes at the moment, and not only is he claiming 8 years no claims (surely the insurance companies want proof) but also has failed to mention he is in the middle of a claim. This is a bit dodgy obviously. It is also unclear to me at the moment, whether ownership of the car will be transferred to the father, i am assuming it will but you never know.

Why the fuss?
OK, here is the upshot of all of this. The father is not particularly well off. He is also expecting to lose his job at the end of next month. He is also a bit of a scumbag kinda guy really (wifey agrees). Our concern is for the brother, who, whilst not the most sensible with money etc, is very worried about what will happen if his father cannot or does not pay the finance each month. The brother has been working hard to get himself out of debt and clear his credit rating, but is obviously worried about how this can affect him. Or, if there is an issue with the car, be it mechanical or accident in nature, whether he will just ditch the car for scrap etc. The finance is still in place and will be for a couple of years and the brother is worried that his father may stitch him up badly. The brother has tried talking to his sister (who live in the same house as him and their mum) as well as talking to their father, but getting nothing short of abuse in return, with comments such as "Its in my name, i can do what i want with it", which of course is legally true.

He has phoned up the finance company and asked if they are able to transfer finance, which of course they are not able to do.

My question to you people out there is what can he do to protect himself? There is no written legal agreement between the brother and sister regarding the payments of the finance. The car is in the sisters name so she can do what she wants with it. What are his options?

I am kinda drawing a blank to be honest, not sure what to suggest so i thought i would ask the legally and financially savvy amongst you for some help.

Much appreciated and sorry for the rambling.

Evilmunky

[dave87]

How long has the finance been in place?


If he has paid half of the amount, he can return it under the Voluntary Termination rule, nothing owed.

If you remove the car, you remove the problem.

[Clunk]

He's right to be worried, the finance agreement is with whoever took it out, which is why people do HPI checks to make sure theres no finance on a vehicle before buying it.

The insurance thing is worrying too, if he writes this car off and the insurance find out he hasn;t told them about the other claim, they just won't pay up.

Tell him to get a loan to pay off the car finance if he wants it?

[Stringent]

I would see it this way. Its the SiL responsibility to pay the car off as she agreed to have that arrangement. She can't just change it because she no longer has the car, its irrelevant.

As far as legalities go though, the finance is in the BiL name so he HAS to pay back the money regardless of getting stitched up or not. There isn't much he can do really.

[badass]

Investigate a voluntary release of the car. He may just be able to surrender the car without an impact on his credit rating. If the sister is that rude to him, I don't see how he has any obligation to her.
You all know the dad will crash it and then stop paying the finance. If he gets a torrent of abuse from her for looking to pretect himself then sod her.

[GoNz0]

1st off, your brothers a fool doing that in the 1st place !
2nd, he is a bigger fool if he lets her hand the car over as its obvious he wont be able to pay for it

if its under finance then the finance company own the car no matter who's names on the log book, so it may be time to take it back off her.

he can claim the log book is lost and apply for a new one in his name if needs be (afaik)

if it does start to turn nasty he only has hinself to blame for letting this happen.

the guy who needs a car can go buy a £100 scrapper cant he.

its not down to "her" to agree to give the car to her father, and you need to make it clear he owns the car until she has paid it off, either pay up or forget the deal.

[slypie]

Nothing you can do really as the car is in her name and the loan in his name and the 2 will be seen as separate issues. The only thing the brother could do is pursue this in court which may get messy.

[Rave]

The car is in the sisters name so she can do what she wants with it.

Nope. She's the Registered Keeper, but that doesn't mean she owns the car. If the finance is in your B-I-L's name, then the courts would see it as his car. It would be up to the sister to prove that she had been making payments to her brother and thus had a stake in the car.

Say you were going abroad for a couple of years- you could make me the registered keeper of your car with the DVLA so that I can sort out tax/sorn/insurance whatever while you're away. That doesn't mean I can do what I want with your car, it just makes me responsible for making sure that the car is legal.

[burtie]

The Plan. You could always kill the farther as the world always needs one less scumbag.This action does mean a small stay in jail but ha ho.
You can borrow my scumbag baseball bat if you like, I'll need this back for the local chavs thought.

Looks like the brother may not end up getting any money for the car. He needs to slap the sister for letting the farther have the car!! That he went out and got finance for. Then make her keep the car she wanted and pay of the rest of the finance.

[EvilMunky]

Nope. She's the Registered Keeper, but that doesn't mean she owns the car. If the finance is in your B-I-L's name, then the courts would see it as his car. It would be up to the sister to prove that she had been making payments to her brother and thus had a stake in the car.

Say you were going abroad for a couple of years- you could make me the registered keeper of your car with the DVLA so that I can sort out tax/sorn/insurance whatever while you're away. That doesn't mean I can do what I want with your car, it just makes me responsible for making sure that the car is legal.

I did wonder on this after something someone else said! Thanks.

[Roundabout]

I agree with the posters above that your BiL is in serious danger of getting screwed royally and being left with no car + outstanding finance.

I would assume that your sister cannot legally transfer ownership of the car to her father without settling her outstanding debt to you or without you allowing her to transfer the debt.

As I don't know all I can suggest is your BiL pays a visit to the Citizens Advice Bureau for some free advice.

[greenalien]

Rave is right on this one; the car belongs to the finance company and the debt belongs to your brother in law. He has given permission to his sister to drive it, but he is under no obligation to extend the same courtesy to his father; if he witholds permission and his father still drives the vehicle, his father is committing a criminal offence as he has effectively stolen the vehicle. His sister does not have the legal right to give anyone permission to drive the vehicle.
Frankly, the entire situation is a can of worms; I shudder to think what would happen if the father has an accident as there's a good chance the insurance company wouldn't pay up.
Best advice - get your b-i-l to get a lawyer and sieze the car back, then sell it and clear his debts, as his sister clearly doesn't want it any more.