Sympathy for Israel

[format]

No, of course not. Just that they way the middle east is at the moment i can't see there ever being peace in the are. Has there ever been peace there?

Just as much as any other region (read: not a lot) but even less after Europeans started meddling.

Remember most of Europe were fighting each other for the past 1000 years.

[longshanks]

Guess you are right guys. Just the trouble in the middle east seems to stand out like a sore thumb!

[JPreston]

We have removed racist comments & threats of violence toward members.

Rhetorically I wonder; did the racism and threats of violence come from posters who are pro-Israeli, or pro-Hamas?

Is the answer at all illuminating?

[dave87]

Is the answer at all illuminating?

Nope, each side was taking potshots at the other.

[0iD]

Is the answer at all illuminating?

Frankly, no.

[format]

(I was just about to type "I wasn't even were Jews counted as a race" but realised this *may* be read the wrong way )

What I mean is, aren't Jews a religious rather than an ethnic/racial group?

[0iD]

And how much of the blame can be put on the English & the Balfour Declaration?

[0iD]

What I mean is, aren't Jews a religious rather than an ethnic/racial group?

Good point, I always considered them ethnic Jews.

[shadowmaster]

What I mean is, aren't Jews a religious rather than an ethnic/racial group?

This is where I get confused at times. I've talked to Jews who say they are not religious, in actual fact are athiest, but are Jewish by race. Then I've talked to religious Jews who say they are both.

[icemantaz]

yes it seems if you ask a jewish person where they are from like for example you speaking to an american he would say he was jewish not american.
They do always seem to state it as a nationality rather than a religion.

ALso might i add one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter! To the palestinians hamas are people fighting for the right to exist. As you can see from that map on a previous page its frightning how they are trying to take over the area.

One final point. When Saddam was in power and alot was being made of how many UN rules he had broken, hadnt Israel broken something like 3 times as many as what Iraq had broken?

[iranu]

Healthy constuctive debate is good

But impossible with regards to the whole Palestine/Israel thing. I've never seen a debate that doesn't descend into bickering, usually before page 2, page 4 if you are lucky. There is no possible way of debating without heavy moderation. There's always emotive language, unsubstantiated claims, counter claim, religion, politics, racism, bigotry, idealism etc on both sides.

For me it's a mystery why the massacre of 1,400 people is such a small deal. I realise that most of the world has no idea of the horror that is happening to the Palestinians, but this one was widely reported.

1,400 people is a small fry in the "world of killing people" - "massacre" - use of language noted, your language already compromises you (see above).

Whilst there is obvious debate about the numbers and what percentage of civilians made up the final toll, it's clear that deaths from security and military personnel were substantial so unless these forces were killed in cold blood then the word "massacre" is innapropriate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati...ead#Casualties

WHO estimates 200,000 dead in Darfur, Sudan in 5 years. That's 40,000 a year - 28.5 times as many as in Palestine. Crappy isn't it? Plenty of publicity about that too, but sweet FA done about it. Iirc Sudan's president has been indited for "war crimes".

Deep South Watch, an independent research group that monitors the conflict, has put the southern death toll over the last five years of violence at 3,287 lives, of whom 1,788 were Thai Muslims and 1,348 Thai Buddhists, with another 5,405 people wounded, The Nation newspaper reported.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...#ixzz0AiYL40Ty

Mexico's daily El Universal, which began counting drug war executions four years ago, reports that 5,612 people were executed in Mexico’s drug war in 2008. This year’s deaths more than doubled 2007’s total of over 2,700 executions. By El Universal's estimates, about 8,463 drug executions have occurred during the first two years of Mexican President Felipe Calderon’s six-year term in office. Calderon deployed the army and federal police to combat drug cartels almost immediately upon assuming office in December 2006.

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/not...3-and-counting

On June 21 2007, the Research and Documentation Center in Sarajevo published the most extensive research on Bosnia-Herzegovina's war casualties titled: The Bosnian Book of the Dead - a database that reveals 97,207 names of Bosnia and Herzegovina's citizens killed and missing during the 1992-1995 war.

55,261 of them civilians - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War#Casualties

Roughly 3000 people die each year on Britain's roads.

The question you have to ask is why is the Israeli/Palestinian conflict given more/less/same coverage as those I've linked above.

Secondly, what are the criteria for acting diplomatically or physically with regard to these conflicts? Which countries should do what?

Thirdly, given all the conflict and death in the world and who does what to whom, why does this particular conflict get people all worked up? What is special about this one rather than any other?

[iranu]

What I mean is, aren't Jews a religious rather than an ethnic/racial group?

Actually they are both. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewishness

[shadowmaster]

One final point. When Saddam was in power and alot was being made of how many UN rules he had broken, hadnt Israel broken something like 3 times as many as what Iraq had broken?

Iraq also had economic sanctions placed upon it, something which Israel has never experienced.

[iranu]

Obama is just a puppet. The US is run by zionist jews.

Let me guess. I think you are a Muslim and you don't check your sources, but listen to whatever rubbish that confirms your own prejudice.

You see it's this nonsense that I'm taking about. How can anyone take 360bhp seriously or think anything he says is credible when (within the first 2 pages) he comes out with this crap? Honestly.

Doesn't matter whether it's Clinton, Bush, Obama, Palin, Iranu (yes I am a secret zionist plant that will take the title of POTUS in 20 err, working out multiples of 4, yes! 2013.) the same old dross floats to the surface.

This is the reason why every post on the internet regarding the Pal/Isr conflict requires a moderator or 6 to say, "wohoa! Hang on there bud. Got a source or some evidence for that or do you want me to wipe your post"?

[360bhp]

I knew you would show your face here. Still waiting on the other member

Before we begin, I can gurantee you are either Jewish, or have Jewish ties, in one way or another.

Simple yes or no answer... Are you ACTUALLY defending Israeli action against the Palestinians?

[dave87]

Comeon chaps - again, argue the points not the person.


If you keep it on the straight and narrow, the thread stays here, you can debate away. If it declines into the personal insults some expect it to, it will get binned.


As such, it shouldn't matter the background of the poster - that is one of the principal advantages of the web - and will remain so for this debate.