So, who else here works for a bank?..(IT in particular!)

[Rob_B]

I work for them in IT as an apprentice (part of manufacturing that 4500 UK job cuts have just been announced)
I can't say I'm too chuffed to hear today's news, I had a day off for my 2nd wedding anniversary & turn the TV on to this!

I've not been with the bank long enough to make redundancy a decent option (4years ish) so a bit concerned! Anyone else suffering due to Fred & Co's lack of brain cells?...(no smart-arse answers please, I'm a tax-payer too )

[Rob_B]

Supportive...thanks...

[dave87]

Come on how1, not really the Hexus mentality.

Rob_B - not a great position to be in, but RBS will have to follow a set proceedure before they can force dismissals through redundancy. If they don't, I believe it opens them up to Constructive Dismissal claims, which is the last thing they want.

I'd have my head about the market, redo your CV perhaps, and see if you can move up the career ladder if the time comes that your job is no longer available @ RBS. The annoying thing is, IT is seen as a cost centre until it all goes wrong, at which point it gets raised up the agenda.

Best of luck anyway chap, let us know how you get on

[staffsMike]

Sound advice from Dave I dare say.

Chin up if you do lose yours, I'm sure you will find something else

[Rob_B]

Cheers guys, fingers crossed but I'd not likely get a job in IT as the apprenticeship was a step up from my old job with no prior mainframe/IT experience, guess I was lucky in that respect!

Well it's 4,500 cuts over 2 years, plenty of older people in this role who would love redunancy & 40%ish contractor mix in my Dept but I guess I have to prepare for the worst! Extra bedroom conversion & 2nd child on hold for now then!

[dave87]

How long you been/got left as an apprentice, and what qualification is it giving you at the end?

[Rob_B]

2-3 months of 1yr although it's officially 2yrs but it's not really, kinda confusing . No real qualification however upping of my grade/pay & would be allowed to call myself a proper DB2 DBA

[dave87]

As many on here would say, experience is everything. I think it was theAnimus who said he was looking at people with firsts from top unis, who had a distinct lack of common sense/people skills. If you've got those (as you've got a missus, I can guess you've got at least some of the latter) then you are halfway there.

A willingness to learn/ask for help is the other thing employers like, and I'm pretty sure you've got the former, and may have had to do the latter to do so.

I was talking to another member on here (who I won't name) who had redone their CV, and found so many skills they had aquired without realising it - as such that was the reasoning behind my suggestion on redoing your CV, even if you don't then go and give it out

[Rob_B]

Good suggestion, I'm hoping it doesn't come to that (of course) for many reasons!
I think it's ok when you're single &/or no kids but things change & you seem to worry more with them (I wouldn't expect otherwise though!)

Hoping this is just shock at the thought of things changing & rational thought will take over tomorrow.

[TheAnimus]

Start looking for another job now, staying ahead of the rest of the hundreds of people who are going to be looking later.

The RBS situation is only going to get worse, the government is going to be under tremendous pressure to ensure the tax payer costs are minimised, and this will mean screwing employees.

[Saracen]

Start looking for a new job?

Supportive...thanks...

Well, it might not have been phrased very delicately, and it isn't how I'd have put it, but nonetheless, it probably remains sound advice.

I mean, however you dress it up, that's what it comes down to. I mean you can hunker down, hope for the best and pray you don't get let go, but the banking industry is in sufficient mess that, RBS or not, the odds don't look good.

So, I'd have thought that "start looking" was probably good advice to a large number of people in banks right now, and has been for several months.

An awful lot of people are going to have a rough time of it this year, and quite possibly, for the next few years. Obviously, that includes bank staff, but it probably includes almost everyone else too. But for those particularly at risk, and I'm sorry to say RBS is at or close to the top of the list, probably the best piece of advice you can get is "start looking". If you're lucky enough to survive any cuts, having looked at options won't hurt you, and if you aren't lucky, you have a head start.

So while how1 could certainly have put that more softly, it's still good advice. And, of course, if he happens to be someone that's already (as a lot have) lost his job (and maybe home, and more) due to a crisis for which banks in general have to shoulder a large part of the blame, he might not be feeling especially charitable to anyone in a bank, even if your pay grade is way below those that were responsible for the errors that got us into this mess.


For the record, my personal feeling is that bankers have a LOT to answer for right now, but they neither shoulder all the blame, nor are the vast majority of people that work in banks what I would call "bankers". They're just working grunts like the rest of us, that happen to work in banks. A salaried working grunt is a salaried working grunt whether it's in a bank or not, and with the exception of the like of Fred the Shred Goodwin (about whom my opinions are not fit for unedited public dissemination) and the others on six or seven figure bonuses for either making the greedy short-term gambles that caused or current problems, or worse yet, the incompetent management that let them, I have nothing but sympathy for those facing possible job loss, whether bank staff or not.

So Rob, when you see me go off on one about banks and bankers, and you will regularly see me do just that, I'm NOT talking the majority of normal working staff, like you.

[TheAnimus]

For the record, my personal feeling is that bankers have a LOT to answer for right now, but they neither shoulder all the blame, nor are the vast majority of people that work in banks what I would call "bankers". They're just working grunts like the rest of us, that happen to work in banks. A salaried working grunt is a salaried working grunt whether it's in a bank or not, and with the exception of the like of Fred the Shred Goodwin (about whom my opinions are not fit for unedited public dissemination) and the others on six or seven figure bonuses for either making the greedy short-term gambles that caused or current problems, or worse yet, the incompetent management that let them, I have nothing but sympathy for those facing possible job loss, whether bank staff or not.

Also remember plenty of traders in Derivs weren't in any way to blame too.

People who where say shorting VW, or shorting Ford are actaully an important part of controlling bubbles.

The joke was there was senior management who where presiding over credit people, companies like AIG where selling insurance, without hedging it at all, meaning when it came time to pay, they couldn't. Those managers couldn't understand what the people under them where doing, but didn't question it because it seamed ot make money. That there is the problem.

There are plenty of people to blame, but the majority are victims of a very complex circumstance, that where way outside of their control. Those who did see it coming, where "not listened too" by this i mean the price of a PUT on say the EuroStoxx 50, was dirt cheap, people thought those neighsayers where mad.

[Saracen]

Yup, Animus, I agree.

The biggest single factor, in my view, was the culture. Years ago, endowment mortgages used to be marketed with a warning that "past performance does assure future performance". Banks seem to have forgotten their own warnings, and have taken the attitude that what seems to have been profitable for a long time will continue to be so indefinitely. That, of course, ignores the basic nature of a bubble.

The other cultural problem was that if it's been making money for years, and the culture is such that not only bonuses but perhaps your very job lie in "success", that being measured by short-term performance, it's expecting a lot of human nature to expect people expected to meet short-term profitability targets to turn down things that seem to be continually successful, because you'd have your bosses looking at your numbers and wondering if you're temperamentally suited to the job. It's a cultural thing, in that those at the coal face don't have any incentive at all to rock the boat. And that's why I blame senior management, and of course, politicians who should have been establishing a regulatory framework and culture, and weren't.


Anyway, I'm in danger of going off on one of those rants I mentioned and that isn't what this thread is about, so I'll stop at that.

[TAKTAK]

I don't really have sound experience in work areas, but IMO, i would keep an eye out for jobs, just to be ahead of the game if things did go downhill.
But also, doesn't the government offer incentives for having apprentices on-board?
I know alot of the companies around here are taking on extra apprentices than normal (and have a lot more applicants...), but they aren't companies that have been bailed out... so it may be a different story.

But good luck either way

[TheAnimus]

You need to get in contact with as many agents as possible, right now, its simple.

Also you have to remember some of them are owned by the same groups, so when you say "yes your the only agent i'm seeing" only lie if you know they don't share DB information with each other.