Open day on Santa?

[TooNice]

I don't believe Santa is the type to troll, and while this thread bears some resemblance to trolling, in that it's provocative, it doesn't have all the hallmarks. A thread or post isn't trolling just because it's provocative, and can be provocative without being trolling.

To be honest, I question if the thread would have been closed earlier if it had been started off with a less regular/new poster. The topic itself is provocative, nothing wrong with that, but the way it was started did come across to me as flame-bait more than a serious discussion to me. For what it's worth, the OP implying that he doesn't really care what we think anyway did put me off writing better thought replies (I do not want to waste my time for someone else's entertainment).

But I digress. The mods think it's fair game and I do buy into the notion of 'If you don't like a thread...'. Which is why I'll just edit it here rather than bumping this thread with nothing valuable to add, and quietly exit after putting my 2 pence worth.

Edit: Or not. Looks like I accidentally hit 'quote' replies instead of 'edit'.

[Apex]

I apologise to the responsible cyclists, but there are enough of you (a minority perhaps, but significant minority)

Sadly i don't think they are the minority, along the route to work i would say a good 90% of the cyclists i pass on my motor bike jump the red lights and don't think traffic rules apply to them.

[DeludedGuy]

You mean like the Cycling Proficiency course I did at school?

I thought everyone did this.

I have never heard of it

Does it involve going out on the road and cycling together? You can read as much as you want about driving on a road but until you are out there doing it, it’s just not the same.

I have read about that cycle commuting club which runs in the morning and afternoon for people who are afraid, but they are relatively unheard of, they should get some sort of government funding to help them publicise their work.

[pollaxe]

We had Cycling Proficiency Tests when I was at primary school (1970s/1980s). Something they drummed into us back then (over and over again) was that the roads were for motor vehicles, not bikes.

I suppose times have changed since then, I've posted many times fulminating about cyclists but tbh many of them are just an addition to the wider number of idiots using the roads in general (on foot/wheels/animals/whatever.)

[DeludedGuy]

Sadly i don't think they are the minority, along the route to work i would say a good 90% of the cyclists i pass on my motor bike jump the red lights and don't think traffic rules apply to them.

90% is a high number.

So in all of your daily commutes to work, with the 90% of cyclists running red lights how many accidents have you seen?

Or how many cyclists make up that 90%? 3-4?

I am interested.

[ajones]

You mean like the Cycling Proficiency course I did at school?

I thought everyone did this.

I don't think the Cycling Proficiency Course covers the current rule that whilst wearing a Lycra jockstrap, it is mandatory to use the main carriageway in preferance to the public funded cycle path... On the positive side though, it does take longer to complete than the 7 minute marathon that was my Texas driving test!

[Apex]

90% is a high number.

So in all of your daily commutes to work, with the 90% of cyclists running red lights how many accidents have you seen?

Or how many cyclists make up that 90%? 3-4?

I am interested.

Last count, 22 on the morning run in and 15 on the way home

[Saracen]

To be honest, I question if the thread would have been closed earlier if it had been started off with a less regular/new poster. The topic itself is provocative, nothing wrong with that, but the way it was started did come across to me as flame-bait more than a serious discussion to me. ......

Honestly? Yeah, maybe, just maybe it would. But then, the likelihood of a post like this being a troll from a brand new (or nearly new) member is much higher than from a regular.

It also depends on how you define troll.

My attitude, and I think that of all the rest of the mod team, is that we don't interfere in threads unless we feel we need to. Sometimes, a gentle nudge early on stops something deteriorating, and sometimes it needs a much firmer line.

Prevention is better than cure, so I'd rather intervene early with a light touch to prevent problems than have to fire-fight them afterwards. But I won't close a thread unless it's either a very clear rule breach, or I can't think of a better way to handle it. And certainly, if I closed threads that I, personally, don't like there'd be a LOT more closed threads ..... and certainly, in GD on just about any board I've been on.

The art of moderating (and it is an art, not a science) is trying to intervene when you need to, not just when you feel personally inclined to .... and even then, I doubt I get it right all the time.

So my preferred stance is "don't, unless you really need to". If this had been any poster other than a regular, would I "need" to close it? Not yet, no. I might well give a new poster a bit less slack than a regular, but I hope the difference wouldn't be much, because it's really about the thread contents than who posted it.

[DeludedGuy]

Last count, 22 on the morning run in and 15 on the way home

You expect me to believe you count cyclists while you are riding your motorbike, and remember how many in the morning and in the afternoon? Your run must be very plain and boring with nothing to be aware of, no wonder the cyclists just ride on through.

Pulling numbers out your arse doesn’t impress anyone.

And as you said, 90% of them run red lights, yet you haven’t seen them cause any accidents in all your time of riding your motorbike.

Those pesky cyclists are so lethal travelling at their 15mph, god forbid they kill themselves.

[Funkstar]

I have never heard of it

Does it involve going out on the road and cycling together? You can read as much as you want about driving on a road but until you are out there doing it, it’s just not the same.

Yup, we were taken out on the road as well as having a course set up in the school playground. There was also a written test part to it as well with all the appropriate hand signals. I got a certificate and everything.

I did suspect it might have either been a local or Scottish thing, but if Pollax had done it as well...

[Saracen]

Yup, we were taken out on the road as well as having a course set up in the school playground. There was also a written test part to it as well with all the appropriate hand signals. I got a certificate and everything.

I did suspect it might have either been a local or Scottish thing, but if Pollax had done it as well...

I did the cycling proficiency test too ..... just outside London. It certainly wasn't uniquely a Scottish thing. As far as I remember, it wasn't compulsory (at least, not by law) .... though for me, the Court of Mum and Dad decreed that no 'pass' meant no bike. That's as compulsory as it gets.

[0iD]

I did it too, reached the Essix coast as well.

[DeludedGuy]

Yup, we were taken out on the road as well as having a course set up in the school playground. There was also a written test part to it as well with all the appropriate hand signals. I got a certificate and everything.

I did suspect it might have either been a local or Scottish thing, but if Pollax had done it as well...

That actually sounds good, I am 24 and never had it in my school (London) and I don’t know of anyone around my age who had it. I think it should be made compulsory tbh, there is no harm in learning.

[0iD]

Must've been about '78 when I did the Cycling Proficiency

[kalniel]

Same here, Derbyshire.

[Lowe]

I'm with Santa on this one, I run red lights when it's safe. I don't get why a cyclist jumping a red light would annoy you in any way? Jumping the red light in itself isn't a problem, but if you make a dangerous manuever then that's a problem. Jumping a red light is NOT by definition a dangerous maneuver.

There's a very good reason behind it. A great deal of the cyclists that most motorists encounter on their daily travels aren't serious riders. It's people just nipping to the shops, to mates etc. It's these people that will jump lights, hop onto pavements, cut up cars etc. Now I admit, on the other hand you also have the super serious cyclists who cycle for a living like the couriers etc. They're pretty much as bad and stop for nothing other than their own funeral! It's these people which give the rest of us cyclists a bad name. Those of us 'in the middle' who use their bikes day in and day out for commuting and pleasure riding get tarred with the same brush, and ultimately given no respect when riding on the road.

As I've already said I'm no angel, but I have to say the disregard for my safety shown by many car drivers would make a nun swear. Helmets quite often don't help either, if memory serves Australian research found that those wearing a helmet when riding are given less room by motorists than those who don't! I wish I had one of those action cams, I could make a decent length video compilation of car driving idiots within a week!