Open day on Santa?

[TheAnimus]

Why don't we have the american style right turn at red lights if road ahead clear?

(well it would be turn left obviously to avoid chaos!)

[kalniel]

There's safety issues with stopping at every red light when you are on a bicycle; you are trusting that the car following will see you, will stop themselves as opposed to ploughing into the back of you, will not stop alongside you and try to barge you into the gutter, when the lights turn green will not overtake you then immediately turn left, and will let you accelerate away at your necessarily slow pace without performing an impatient and dangerous overtaking manoeuvre in the middle of the junction.

Yes you are trusting that other people also stick to the rules of the road. That's how roads work and it's a far safer option than cycling through reds.

Why don't we have the american style right turn at red lights if road ahead clear?

(well it would be turn left obviously to avoid chaos!)

Because it's way more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists. Something we tend to have more of than the US Also they have loads more crossroads due to not inventing the roundabout yet

[TheAnimus]

Because it's way more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists. Something we tend to have more of than the US Also they have loads more crossroads due to not inventing the roundabout yet

Roundabouts are horrific thou.

They always have scared the living daylights out of me when i'm on a bike, and the fact we have this sodding stupid mini ones, which mums in BMW 4x4s drive straight over them with little checking worries me.

Having a stop sign, or traffic lights is a better solution and allows for non equalibrium in traffic priorities. A mate of mine as part of his undergrad did a nice proof as to why roundabouts are bad from all concerns, i'll see if he ever posted it online.

[Saracen]

Why don't we have the american style right turn at red lights if road ahead clear?

(well it would be turn left obviously to avoid chaos!)

I've often wondered that. It seems so obvious a thing to do.

The only thing is that if you introduce it while roads are relatively quiet (i.e. decades ago), it's relatively safe while people get used to it. But if we tried to introduce it now, on packed roads, there'd probably be chaos for a few years as people got used to it. Maybe the fear is that it's cause accidents to do it now .... though I'm not sure I can quite see how, if it's used properly.

It raises a similar question re bikes, though. Right now, the main argument for bikes not jumping lights, at least to turn left, is that it's illegal. But, if the law was changed, it wouldn't be, So then, providing it was only used when the road was clear, what would the problem be? JPreston is right with at least some of the points he makes about dangers of stopping in a bike, as bikes (even motorbikes) seem to be invisible to some car drivers.

Maybe the issue is judgement over when a road is "clear". If people treat it as "absolutely clear, nothing in sight anywhere", it's safe. If people treat it as "I think I can get out in time if I go quickly", then we have a potential for accidents.

Right now, people aren't supposed to pull out of side roads into a main flow if they cant do it without causing someone to change speed or direction, yet how many of us haven't had to break (and on occasions, brake hard) because some twit pulls out into fast moving traffic and then doesn't even bother to pull away quickly. I'd say that over the years, I've had to brake at least hundreds of times in circumstances like that.

So, right now, an absolute ban on jumping lights makes enforcing it (if there happens to be a cop or camera nearby) much easier than it would be if it were a judgement call on how clear a road is. Maybe that's the logic.

[darkghost]

I'd say my braking ability is better than most cars on my bike, but I rode my friends (old and knackered) bike and her brakes were terrible, slightly better after I set them up right but still poor. Even so, bad brakes is more of a reason to stop at the lights, rather than go through them!

Do not kid yourself - a bike cannot stop better than a car (I have 4 expensive bikes with good brakes).

The same goes for motorbikes - the limitation is when the back wheel lifts off and you start going over the bars. The car doesn't have this problem and the limit is when the front wheels start to lock up.

This is why I find it amazing when a motorcyclist tailgates at higher speeds - suicidal.

[Rave]

The same goes for motorbikes - the limitation is when the back wheel lifts off and you start going over the bars. The car doesn't have this problem and the limit is when the front wheels start to lock up.

Actually this depends entirely on the location of the centre of gravity of the bike and rider. Long and low bikes (say a Harley for instance) will lock up their front wheels before they lift the back wheel.

Anyway, I don't go speeding through red lights willy nilly on my bicycle but I do jump them if I can see it's safe to do so. If needs be I'll stop, have a look, then jump the light.

TBH, I have been known to jump traffic lights in my car if it's four in the morning and I'm familiar with the road layout so I can be sure there's nobody for miles around (and no traffic light camera).

[kalniel]

Right now, people aren't supposed to pull out of side roads into a main flow if they cant do it without causing someone to change speed or direction, yet how many of us haven't had to break (and on occasions, brake hard) because some twit pulls out into fast moving traffic and then doesn't even bother to pull away quickly. I'd say that over the years, I've had to brake at least hundreds of times in circumstances like that.

Every single day - same junction - always have to brake from 60 to 15 in the space of a few seconds. Doesn't matter how visible I make myself, cars always assume that stopping distance at 60 is enough for them to get out in and accelerate up to 60. Yes, it looks like a long way but it's not!!

[steve threlfall]

Right now, people aren't supposed to pull out of side roads into a main flow if they cant do it without causing someone to change speed or direction, yet how many of us haven't had to break (and on occasions, brake hard) because some twit pulls out into fast moving traffic and then doesn't even bother to pull away quickly. I'd say that over the years, I've had to brake at least hundreds of times in circumstances like that.

That is in fact standard for nearly any journey involving country lanes and the national speed limit. Its known as the Suzuki Alto effect.

[jon bda]

Translation: I presume that the road ahead will always be clear of pedestrians, cyclists, children, debris and animals - in fact everything apart from other cars that perfectly follow the highway code as I interpret it. If this assumption causes the injury or death of another human being I will be most concerned about cosmetic damage to my property first and foremost. I pay RFL and insurance and resent that other people are permitted to use the public space that I want to occupy myself more cheaply than me.

Its called Darwinism mate, red lights are there for a reason...want to use the roads but don't want to follow the rules, hope the brakes are working on the vehicle thats got right of way. Is it that hard for you to absorb?.

[santa claus]

Its called Darwinism mate, red lights are there for a reason...want to use the roads but don't want to follow the rules, hope the brakes are working on the vehicle thats got right of way. Is it that hard for you to absorb?.

Let's not do that eh? If you have a differing view you can express it without adding a barb. Please. Thank you.

So, by now you will have gathered that I cycle. I've cycled all my life and run lights with caution and never once has this put me or anyone else in difficulty. Anyone who uses 2 wheels rides defensively because the volume of traffic creates danger even when the driving standard of others is good.

I've also cycled in accord with the rules of the road and nearly been wiped out too many times to remember.

Ok, so you don't want cyclists to run red lights. How about we dedicate closed off roads to cycling and walking only? Sharing the same space is no longer safe and we have to start thinking bigger than red paint and cycle lanes.

It could make all our lives a little easier. Please also remember that cyclists are dads, mums, uncles etc. They are not the spawn of evil just because they are in your way .

[peterb]

Let's not do that eh? If you have a differing view you can express it without adding a barb. Please. Thank you.

snip--->

Given the content of your original post

<--snip Bite me snip---->

- you can hardly complain when you get bitten.

[KidChameleon]

Ok, so you don't want cyclists to run red lights. How about we dedicate closed off roads to cycling and walking only? Sharing the same space is no longer safe and we have to start thinking bigger than red paint and cycle lanes.

[TooNice]

Let's not do that eh? If you have a differing view you can express it without adding a barb. Please. Thank you.

I regularly cycle through red traffic lights. Bite me.

Oh that's rich

[santa claus]

Given the content of your original post - you can hardly complain when you get bitten.

Oh that's rich

Calm down girls, keep your knickers on .

[jon bda]

Calm down girls, keep your knickers on .

You use the roads, abide by the rules, is it that hard?. I used to cycle a lot myself, but i have a healthy fear of death so would not of ridden through a red light, hell, even driving or riding through a red with the ability to use internal combustion to speed up to avoid 'incoming' would scare the s**t out of me. Your wondering why your getting flamed here?, have you nothing better to do than practice the keyboard warrior skills?.

[santa claus]

Your wondering why your getting flamed here?, have you nothing better to do than practice the keyboard warrior skills?.

No, I'm not wondering that. I'm wondering why people bother to contribute when they have nothing to say.