Whos fault?

[Haiku32]

Today me and my friends got return train tickets into town. It was only when we got there we realised he had given us all childs tickets. When we got off the train we got pulled over and asked what age we were. We replied 16 and the man claimed us of "robbing the company and trying to commit fraud." Before we could even explain that it was never in our interest to buy the wrong tickets, he threatened us with fines and legal action taken against us. I took offence to this and explained, pretty calmly considering, that it wasn't our mistaken, we had asked for tickets and that's what we had gotten, the ticket sales person never asked us what age we were and assumed we were under 16. To this, the man replied that it was up to us to tell them what age we were and get the right ticket. I said that even though I still believe I was not in the wrong, I would pay the difference for an adult ticket. To this, he took both my tickets and ripped them in half, pointing were I should go to buy another ticket. I stood arguing with him for another 2 minutes before he threatened to call security and get the police involved to take our details and send us fines. Of course I reluctantly paid for another full price ticket (which was over double the price of the ticket we originally bought).

The money here was not the issue, it is the principal behind the whole thing. It should not be up to the customer to purchase the correct ticket, it should be up to the person selling them the ticket to ask the necessary questions to make sure they get the correct ticket. Even then, I should not have had to paid full price for another ticket, I should only have had to make up the difference. The fact that they are blatantly conning us out of money and throwing "legal action, fraud, fines, police" in our face to bully us into paying was bang out of order.

I ask you hexus, who do you think was in the wrong? Me and my friends for not making sure we had the correct tickets, or the sales person for not making sure we got the correct tickets, and the man who conned us into purchasing more?

[Saracen]

....

I ask you hexus, who do you think was in the wrong? Me and my friends for not making sure we had the correct tickets, or the sales person for not making sure we got the correct tickets, and the man who conned us into purchasing more?

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that if you asked for "a ticket", then getting a child's ticket is down to an assumption by the selling clerk and you aren't responsible for him making incorrect assumptions. If he is in doubt, he should have asked how old you were.

But you might well find that it's your responsibility to ensure you have a valid ticket. Given your age, and that it's on the borderline, it would have been sensible to check.

Technically, though, I don't know whose responsibility it is. As the traveller, it may very well be yours to ensure you have a valid ticket, and if you don't, you may be committing an offence.

Some offences are like that ... strict liability. A good example is speeding. If you're driving a car and speeding, then merely doing it is the offence ... it doesn't matter if you intended to, or even if you realised you were.

But either way, whoever is responsible, I guess it's a lesson in life ..... next time, CHECK, and don't just assume other people do their jobs properly.

[Whiternoise]

If you're 16 - GET A YOUNG PERSONS RAILCARD!

They cost £26 a year, but you save a fortune!

http://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/

That way whenever you say "can i have a ticket to X?" you show them your railcard (or enter it on the fast ticket machine) and they will autmatically give you an adult ticket with the YP marker on it.

They're great cards, everything is cheaper by quite a lot and they pay for themselves normally within a couple of trips. For instance, Swindon-London £36 (****ing daylight robbery) with a railcard £24 - BIG difference.

As for age...

With BBFC rated items, it is most definitely the fault of the till operator if you obtain something you shouldn't do and they haven't checked your age. Unless of course they had good reason to assume otherwise, like a fake ID. In cinemas generally they'll let you in if you're underage if you book in advance because they assume that ticket = ageworthy. However, with something like a train ticket, i imagine the rules of carriage make it your fault - regardless.

D YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES

21. Buying tickets
As soon as you can, you should check that the details shown on the ticket are consistent with the journey you intend to make and that you have received the correct change. If you think a mistake has been made you should tell the person who sold you the ticket.

22. Inspection of tickets
You must show and, if asked to do so by the staff of a Train Company or its agent, hand over for inspection a valid ticket and any relevant Railcard, photocard or other form of personal identification in accordance with Condition 15. If you do not, you will be treated as having joined a train without a ticket and the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply. If an Electronic Ticket cannot be displayed, you will be treated as if you were unable to hand over for inspection a valid ticket.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/C...374#b-validity

By the looks of it, it's your fault, i'm afraid - by their standards you should have checked the ticket and then told the guy behind the counter. Odd though, they hardly ever give out kids tickets to overage people, normally you get an adult unless you specifically ask for a child fare.

So, my advice would be:

1. Get a railcard ASAP, when you get to 18, you can sign up for Natwest's student account which gives you one free for 5 years
2. Check the prices first!
3. Book online whenever possible, it is almost always cheaper (i.e. £5 to London as opposed to £25 normally)
4. Check your ticket when you buy it, i've made some right hashes when i've booked for the wrong date or time (12-24 hour clock being a good example )

PS: Ironic that he mentioned robbing the company, train companies are all a bunch of penny pinching fat cats. Who else in the world can boast the most expensive train service in their continent with the least reliability

[Lanky123]

Whilst you were put in this situation by a dozy ticket seller, I can understand the stance of the security guy. Imagine how many overage people they must get who try it on with a child's ticket, and not innocently like you were. With concession tickets less then half the price as you say I presume a hard line is needed to stamp out such people. Clearly that hard line would be much better used at point of sale than later on...but then there's no guarantee that the person who buys the ticket will be the one using it.

As Saracen said, unfortunate situation, lesson learned, not a huge amount of harm done.

[TooNice]

If you feel strongly about it, and/or the cost is significant, perhaps you could write to the train company explaining what happened. As long as you do it maturely, it's possible they may just believe you (it is a credible story of misunderstanding) and send you some coupons for future trips.

The clerk did made an honest mistake by assuming you were under 16 and is partly responsible. You made an honest mistake by assuming that you got the right ticket and is responsible for not having a valid ticket for your age.

The guy who caught you had no way of validating your story, and it is true that there are likely people who try to pass themselves as children when they are not, and as far as I know, he -could have- fined you. So from his point of view, you got off lightly (people who *intend* to defraud the system deserve to pay more than just the difference IMO).

[SammEl]

Should of punched him.

[Saracen]

[B]....

PS: Ironic that he mentioned robbing the company, train companies are all a bunch of penny pinching fat cats. Who else in the world can boast the most expensive train service in their continent with the least reliability

Well, if "robbing" and "fraud" were the words the security guard actually used, he was talking cobblers on that point at least. Travelling without a ticket certainly breaches rail rules and most likely is an offence, but "robbery" it emphatically is not, and in the circumstances as described, they'd be hard pushed to prove fraud either.

[TheAnimus]

Should of punched him.

Yes that would have really helped.

Reminds me of when I had to go down from uni to my grandfarthers funeral a few years ago, I'd forgotton my young persons, but booked the tickets as YP.

The ticket inspector on the way down gave me a hard time, alough it was easy for me to show him my NUS card at reading, and my photoid with my parents address in cornwall, explaining i'm in 16-25, why would i not have a YP card? I do this trip a fair bit.

He was having none of it, didn't believe me I was on my way to a funeral even when i showed him i had a jet black suite + tie, obvious funeral wear, and had booked only 2 nights on my tickets....
I politely told him to call the police, as my next stop was pretty much there.

On the way down the different inspector told me that it wasn't important, he believed me that I had one, and completely understood why I would have forgotten it.

Its very much down to the individual inspector how these things work!

[Steve]

I got done in a similar way to TheAnimus. Except I wasn't going to a funeral, and I had to pay up.

It was a ticket to London, young persons, booked well in advance because of the stupid prices to London, collect tickets from the Fast Collect machines.

Only trouble with this is I neglected to take my railcard - I didn't worry about ticket stuff until I was at the station because I knew that's where my tickets were. Had I had them posted, it'd be an entirely different story (well, not a story at all).

Anyway, I only realise my railcard is on my desk at home when I'm on the train, so it's a little late to buy a full ticket at less than it would cost on the train. The ticket inspectors come along and I explain to one that I've left my card at home. When the other one comes he says "he doesn't have a railcard" as if to imply I intentionally bought a Y-P ticket without a railcard, and made me pay £70 for a ticket.

Sadly it was Friday evening, I was tired, and couldn't be arsed to put up a fight. Neither could the other three people in the carriage who got penalised for various things such as getting on an earlier train than their ticket allowed. Now let's be honest, a nice inspector could have told them to get off at the next stop and wait for the correct train. But no, they were on a money making mission that day. That's really, really not customer service, is it?

[Funkstar]

Should of punched him.

In the neck?




(sorry)

[Domestic_Ginger]

It the fault of the person who sold you the ticket if you did ask for 'a ticket'; but then again checking what you were given would have been useful.

You could have stood your ground but would he still have believed you; I think you were in a postion where less honest people try to put themselves in order to get cheap fares.

It is largely down to the ticket collecters. My tip is if you do end up on the train and realise your mistake then you should try and find the conducter right away and explain to him what is going on. You might not get everything right but they are alot more helpful as you do seem alot more honest form just approaching them first. I appreciate the OP may not have known before hand though.

I am also under the impression that they want to get rid of you quicker as they haven't 'built themselves up' for the round! It is a bit of crap job job putting up with drunks and fare dodgers; dealing with the general public probably leads them to being more sceptical.

[watforddude]

I use the trains a lot and whenever i ask for a ticket to where ever they always give me a adult ticket unless i were to ask for a child, so the person in charge of selling you the ticket was in the wrong.

get a complaints leaflet and right down what happened! they should refund you, i did the same when the train left 2 minutes early which ment i missed it and had to wait 2 hours for the next one!

they gave me 5 pounds worth of train fairs!

[Haiku32]

I don't get the train very often, I was going to an open day at uni so I guess there must have been a lot of people my age getting childs tickets.

It's the principal of the thing though. I don't think he should have automatically assumed I was trying to cheat the system though. The fact that I offered to pay the difference before he even mentioned me having to buy another ticket shows that I wasn't trying rob them in anyway. It was just the cheek of him ripping up my ticket and throwing all kind of crimes I had apparently committed in my face.

Really though, no harm done and like you guys said, I've learned my lesson to always ask for an adults ticket specifically.

[MadduckUK]

they gave me 5 pounds worth of train fairs!

how the hell may train fairs can you get with £5

[PeterStoba]

When we got off the train we got pulled over and asked what age we were.

Why did this happen in the first case would be my question?

I've never been stopped when getting off a train, as while you are on the train your ticket is checked, so if there was a problem, it'd have been sorted already.

how the hell may train fairs can you get with £5

I could get a few

[Haiku32]

Well, every time I get off a busy train they check everyones tickets. Sometimes people don't have time to buy tickets before getting on the train, and the train is so busy that they don't get a chance to buy on the train, so they have to get it after they get off. Makes sense, right?