Don't defend yourself if you are burgled!!

[Saracen]

hmmm - I appreciate, its a different scenario in that he actively pursued the offender, i was just highlighting how the thief (who has offended over 50 times) got no sentence at all and has since re-offended, whats that about?

I've only read that Times article, but the critical bit in that respect seems to be

but his injuries meant that he was not fit to plead after being charged with false imprisonment.

I can only assume that if you combine the idea of getting such a severe beating around the head with that statement, that it failed because of his injuries.

[aidanjt]

And yet many people in this thread will scoff at the draconian measures several middle eastern countries use to deter criminals.

There's a difference between justice and defence. That's why the military doesn't police the streets, and the police don't fight wars.

[bsodmike]

Man did a great thing as far as i'm concerned, should have killed the other little p**** aswell.

Im my opinion when you break into someone elses house you should forfeit your right to any human rights.

Most definitely.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Looks like Myleene Klass got into trouble trying to ward off some kids who entered her garden:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8451369.stm

[jim]

Yeah I found that interesting.

I fully understand why the guy in this thread originally got into bother, but I'm surprised at the suggestion that she shouldn't have grabbed the knife.

I wonder how much of it is just being "overly cautious". I somehow doubt that she could ever be found guilty of a crime for wielding a knife within the walls of her own property.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Some of these so called "kids" are not tiny little hobbits but people in their teens who are pretty tall and big built. In this case you have a women by herself at home versus a few of these blokes who could rob her or even worse.

I like it how the law is siding with the criminals. It is this approach which is leading to most of the problems. Since these "kids" know that unless they end up killing or raping someone that they will not get into much trouble they do what the heck they like.

This sums up the whole approach:

http://forums.hexus.net/question-tim...-new-home.html

Basically keep the criminals happy so that if they vote a certain political party will get all of them. Screw the people who are law abiding,educate themselves and/or try to work for their living instead of getting the taxpayer to payroll their lives while at the same time not appreciating it and causing trouble to everyone around them. Perhaps some of these people should see how horrible life is in many parts of the world themselves. At least in the UK they will get a free roof over their head,money for food and clothing,free healthcare and a free education too.

Human rights for the criminals but not for the victims! Welcome to nu-Britain!

[TheAnimus]

Looks like Myleene Klass got into trouble trying to ward off some kids who entered her garden:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8451369.stm

Actually I completely agree with the police in this one.

There was no need to show them a knife, and it was quite likely stupid.

Ages ago I did a bit of self defence stuff with someone who used to live on the same base, nutty fool showed me the principle for disarming someone who's whielding a knife well (involves you getting them to stab you between the bones in your arm....).

For giggles he also had me and some other guys come at him with the rubber knife, I'm not small, I'm not light and i'm certainly not weedy. A split second later and i'm pinned against his knee with the training rubber knife against my neck.

The point is if there are a group of kids, flashing a kitchen knife is NOT going to help the situation in any way and is likely to exacerbate to the point of injury to you.

As some of you who know me it might be no surprise that a girl who was a little upset decided to hit me with a blunt object (actually, it wasn't my fault in any way, I just had said something along the lines of "well, we all told you not to sleep with him, what do you expect, we're here for you but you'll get no sympathy"..... Never say that). It was done with quite a lot of intent and it came no where near my body as that arm got pinned easily against the wall (6"4 vrs 5"7..... come on) until she had calmed down a bit... but i digress.

Now myleene class is a midget, and if she really felt the need to arm herself should of put the smallest kitchen knife hidden in her hand against her wrist ready to flick down and catch someone by surprise without fair warning.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Why doesn't the police then warn the kids for trespassing then??

Your attitude does not solve anything. Exacerbate the kids?? Kids who are trespassing?? Wait!! So it is the home-owners fault but not the kids fault!! So basically the kids can break any rules and they are in the clear and it is only the home-owner who has to stay entombed in their property and keep quiet. Maybe you should start to think of older folk and the effect this has on their mental health then?

Even if she did not brandish a knife(she was behind her window) and yelled get off my lawn it would be enough for these kids to vandalise her property and cause massive problems.

If someone breaks into your place and steals your stuff don't blame the burglar!! Blame yourself for having things which burglars want to steal!

[shaithis]

I still find it totally frustrating....the law seems to be actively encouraging crime.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I still find it totally frustrating....the law seems to be actively encouraging crime.

Considering that there are some people who actually support this stance then what do you expect!

[TheAnimus]

Because by the time the police got there, the kids had gone cat.

Pulling out a knife is un-acceptable. Her life was not in-danger, they weren't in the house.

What did she hope to gain from it? Scare the rapscallions off?

Anyone who's worked with troubled children, or anyone who has ever interacted with teens will tell you that isn't going to help matters. Plus showing anyone a knife in a threatening manner is assault. If you stop reading the daily fail and think about the rammifications of saying you should be able to assault someone who is just outside. Thats madness. A friend of mine down in cornwall had someone nock at their door at 1am in the morning because they'd got stranded, nothing sinester. Imagine if you said it was OK to assault someone who just called after darkness?

You have to draw the line somewhere, her life was not in danger, the police had been called and it was unlikely they where going to break in.

There was a chance of criminal damage been caused however, so instead of a knife, why didn't she politely ask them to leave? let them make abusive comments, and video it?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Because by the time the police got there, the kids had gone cat.

Pulling out a knife is un-acceptable. Her life was not in-danger, they weren't in the house.

What did she hope to gain from it? Scare the rapscallions off?

So it is OK if they broke into her house then?? What if you did not see who had entered your house then?? So the kids are allowed to room around your house and your property then??

So the home-owner has to stay locked in their home.

Anyone who's worked with troubled children, or anyone who has ever interacted with teens will tell you that isn't going to help matters.

You way does not seem to work at all though.

Plus showing anyone a knife in a threatening manner is assault. If you stop reading the daily fail and think about the rammifications of saying you should be able to assault someone who is just outside. Thats madness. A friend of mine down in cornwall had someone nock at their door at 1am in the morning because they'd got stranded, nothing sinester. Imagine if you said it was OK to assault someone who just called after darkness?

Then don't answer the door.

Daily fail?? You are talking utter rubbish. What if someone scaled the wall into your back garden or broke into you garage then??

So your advice is to stay at home locked in a panic-room then.

You have to draw the line somewhere, her life was not in danger, the police had been called and it was unlikely they where going to break in.

There was a chance of criminal damage been caused however, so instead of a knife, why didn't she politely ask them to leave? let them make abusive comments, and video it?

Talking to kids politely does not work like you said. You must be in lu-lu land. I have known older people who have told the kids to stop what they are doing and they have assaulted them or actually have caused more problems to them just because they said something. Some of these were ex-teachers too. These kids were also taunting the police and community officers and saying that they if they even touched them they would take them to court.

In the UK people seem to be making excuses for criminal behaviour.

[Prime]

so instead of a knife, why didn't she politely ask them to leave? let them make abusive comments, and video it?

agreed, theres a certain 'Scale' if you like, in which i personally would adopt before brandishing a knife - bang on the window > shout > call the police (maybe) > if sight is in favor i would go outside to speed up the process of "fight or flight", if i had reason to believe they were armed or SAW a weapon then fair enough in that case (personally) i would grab a big knife.
im not advertising that course of action but i most certainly would if i thought i or my family was in danger, im not the type of person to stay locked inside and hope the police move them on.

what i wouldnt do is go straight from calm to panic like Myleene Klass did, but im not a petite woman (regularly)... having to defend myself from god knows what aged chavs - and even if its not defending herself its defending her property but tabloid bee ess gets hold of it and paints a picture mike she was waving a chainsaw, foaming at the mouth screaming in tongues at them.

[TheAnimus]

So it is OK if they broke into her house then?? So the kids are allowed to room around your house and your property then?? So the home-owner has to stay locked in their home.

And your saying its ok to drown kittens at knife point.

No your not, and that is not what I said at all.

Do you get the concept of attrition? Because if you go into real world situations like that you will end up quite badly damaged.

You way does not seem to work at all though.

Actually for me its worked fine, I've only ever had someone try to mug me once. I simply asked very politely what they where doing, why they where doing how old are you. (lots of questions made the kid feel un-comfortable) and reminded him that A there was a busy tube station round the corner, and B I was in no way scared of him, and i could see he was woundering what he was doing as the police had already been called (by my friend I was on the phone too, who I was walking to meet).

But I shouldn't have been talking on my mobile anyway, its east London after all...

Daily fail?? You are talking utter rubbish. What if someone scaled the wall into your back garden or broke into you garage then?? Let me guess you would not arm yourself with something if you wanted to see what was happening.

With a knife, god no. You see I'm not a marshal arts expert, i'm not well schooled in self defence, I have a large frame and a genuine confidence. Thats it.

If I did arm myself with a knife it would be my paring knife, concealed and not used as a threat. It would be used if I felt there was a real chance that my life was threatened, and i'd go for an eye or something horrific, whatever was easy.

Are you some form of armed fighting ace, because if so your in a differen't league to mortals like me, and this girl in question.

So your advice is to stay at home locked in a room then.

No, but if someone broke in to my house, and I have children I would stay locked in the same room as them until the police came eventually.

What would I hope to gain? There is no way I would put any risk to myself, who would take care of the kids!.

Talking to kids does not work like you said. You must be in lu-lu land mate. I have known old people who have told the kids to stop what they are doing and they have assaulted them or actually have caused more problems to them just because they said something.

It does, I've done it, I spent most of my free time at uni doing social work, the trick is to just distract them. If you ask in a completely non-confrontational friendly. Hello, what's going on? You will get a bunch of verbal abuse, but no one will feel the need to use physical violence if your lucky. And if you video it you can press assault.

If you had ever gone after a group of kids with a knife, you wouldn't be arguing this point, you'd be dead (probably).

[BerZerk]

Apparently she did not break the law...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8451877.stm

[TheAnimus]

what i wouldnt do is go straight from calm to panic like Myleene Klass did

That is true, its easy for me to say physical violence isn't merited because there is no direct imminent attack on her, but it wasn't in retrospect.

A good thing to pick-up and as I'm sure she reads this forum, she will now go and buy one is a high power Maglight style torch.

A 3/5W luxeon type LED will startle the **** out of most people if its un-expected, and you can carry it in a very effective fashion above your shoulder.