This thread interested me; Forced to Accept Refund worth Less

[Vini]

http://forums.hexus.net/scan-care-he...hand-card.html

Without trolling in that particular thread, the thread interested me - and annoyed me! Because... I used to head up a returns department and have come across this many a time!!

I can't guarantee this is what has happened here, but this is how it used to go down where I was... just sharing my experiences, which may interest you too!

A (brief) day in the life of a Returns Department worker

X would return an item, it would be tested locally and if found faulty, beyond 'store' repair (which to be honest we didn't have the certification or manpower to do), it would either be;

Replaced in advance by 'store' knowing comfortably it would be replaced/refunded at cost by distributor
-or-
Returned to distributor for further testing, disty would then either repair/replace or return to manufacturer, who would then repair/replace.

Without naming names, you always knew some distributors would repair, rather than refund/replace, and therefore you always knew that if you were going to get say an 'asus' item back, you'd be waiting at least 3-5 weeks for return of that item, because it would be repaired.

This then meant that we couldn't issue a refund/replacement to the customer, because in 5 weeks time we'd be left with a repaired item which couldn't be sold on as new.

Which of course led to irate customers demanding this that and the other, threatening small claims courts, threatening to bad mouth 'store' online and threatening never to shop at 'store' again.

The threats were never a problem, and small claims court summons never went the distance. Losing a customer was not an issue, after all we were practically box shifting. Contrary to anyone's belief, there no real margin in most of the goods, unless you're buying in huge bulk...

It's at this point though, that the customer might have been offered a 'refund offer', similar to the linked thread above... this figure where I worked was made up of a few things;

- How much are we likely to get for the repaired unit if sold on?
- How little can we offer the customer and get away with it?
- How much is a like for like item?

It was nearly always never enough to afford a new/like for like card, and it was never full price paid.

If the customer accepted, this was fine, because ultimately the store would end up with;

A repaired card which can be sold on as "used/whatever you want to call it" and probably make a bit more than what they've already refunded.
-or-
A full cost price refund from distributor.

Either way really 'store' is quids in and the only one losing out is the customer...

If the customer declined the refund, the 'store' would just send them back their original, repaired, card after however many weeks.



As said above this is all from my personal experience and doesn't reflect what is happening at 'store(s)' now, but the process seems very similar!

I've still got contacts at some of the distributors and manufacturers, and still use a few of them for my current job, however I've learnt which manufacturers to avoid to save myself the pain of the above...

[GlasgowGuy]

http://forums.hexus.net/scan-care-he...hand-card.html

Without trolling in that particular thread, the thread interested me - and annoyed me! Because... I used to head up a returns department and have come across this many a time!!........

Interesting to read about a similar kind of thing from another perspective. I've personally had to return a £150 MP3 player to Argos before because it 'died' after about 11 months.

The first time round, I was given a £150 gift voucher (without them even looking in the box to see if it was there :?) Lucky that most people are honest these days, still.

This replacement then broke after about ten months (they gave me a full 12 months from the date of exchange, as I got a totally new receipt saying I paid for it by giftcard, as though it was a present). Again, I got a gift voucher (although I think they might have actually looked in the box that time).

I was certainly impressed by that level of customer service, but as you say, it must have been expensive for Argos if Creative are in a habit of repairing items.

Nevertheless, I do sympathise with the OP in the thread you linked to. It certainly sounds to me like he is being 'taken for a ride', since what we are seeing there appears to be in direct opposition to the Sale of Goods act.

A little snip from Consumer Direct says:

When can I get a refund? When will I be entitled to only a repair or replacement?

If you are returning goods that are not of satisfactory quality or not as described and you return them within a reasonable period of time you may be entitled to ask for a full refund. If you have had some use from the goods or have had them for a while before you take them back you could ask for a repair or a replacement item. You, as the consumer, have the option of which solution you would like, however you must not require the trader to repair or replace the goods if this would be too costly, as compared to another remedy.

If a repair or replacement is not possible for the trader to provide, then you may be entitled to a reduction in the price of the goods to reflect the use up to that point or a refund. These remedies exist alongside the remedies available to you under the general law to terminate the contract for breach of condition and obtain a full refund.

Any remedy that is carried out by the trader must be carried to be within a reasonable time for the consumer and without causing significant inconvenience.

Personally, I would argue that 5 weeks is not 'reasonable time' for a repair to an iterm that is necessary for a computer to boot (graphics card). The lack of computer would certainly be 'significant inconvenience'.

But again, I understand your point of view, and appreciate the difficulty on the retailer's side. The losses involved would be bad at any time, but in the middle of a 'credit crunch', it must be even harder.

BeginDebate(); I guess

[Vini]

Good, valid and fair point, but Argos are far bigger than the 'store' I'm talking about, and are a retail outlet so you'd kind of expect that.

I'm not sure Argos operate returns in the way that most etailers do. RMA numbers, tracking, etc...

[mikerr]

If you are told it'll take up to 6 weeks for a repaired/replacement unit to get to you, then given the option of a lesser refund then that's OK IMO.

If you are prepared to wait (6 weeks), surely the customer would get the same model card back eventually ?

[Vini]

If you are told it'll take up to 6 weeks for a repaired/replacement unit to get to you, then given the option of a lesser refund then that's OK IMO.

If you are prepared to wait (6 weeks), surely the customer would get the same model card back eventually ?

In the case of my original post, I was describing 'worst case scenario'.

The worst thing that would happen in the case of the customer is that you'd end up without your (often expensive) purchase, for 4/5/6 weeks until repaired. You'd always get it back, unless you took the lesser refund if offered. Some people just expected things to be days at the most.

[Behemoth]

In the case of my original post, I was describing 'worst case scenario'.

The worst thing that would happen in the case of the customer is that you'd end up without your (often expensive) purchase, for 4/5/6 weeks until repaired. You'd always get it back, unless you took the lesser refund if offered. Some people just expected things to be days at the most.

This is half the problem. Alot of people don't read the documentation given to them when they buy they're products. So if something goes wrong and its a case of it having to be repaired then they expect it back the very next day. Or the very least a few days. So when they ask me "When will it be back" and I say the most it will be is 28 days they go mental demanding a refund/replacement there and then.

Like Vini points out, this leaves the store in a bit of sticky spot, the customer has every right to demand a replacement product but that in turn leaves the store with a product that has been repaired, and prior to that sat in someones house. You could aregue they've had quite a bit of benefit from this product as they've used it for however many months before it went wrong. In some cases some peoples homes are horribly dirty/smelly and you can sometimes attribute the fault to the environment the product has lived in.

So when it comes to re-selling the product which has been repaired we are left with quite a problem, firstly we aren't able to sell it for it's full retail value as any prospective customers will want a bit of a discount on it to make the purchase attractive to them which means proffit margins for the store are reduced even further, sometimes to the point where the store is making a negative margin on the product.