The Honeymoon is Over

[lazer]

I am all for the new proposals.

[Englander]

As far as I see it, even though the problem runs deeper than mere pricing strategies, at least the tax raised (assuming the price hike will be due to increased tax) can then be used to counter the financial strain put on the NHS as a result. Alternatively, the government might just find a hole to lose the money in, but I shall reserve my judgement of the competency of this lot until they've had a bit more time to do stuff.

[directhex]

So why *is* it that British people can't deal with alcohol responsibly?

[Hicks12]

Im not really too fussed with the potential increase in cost, ive had access to alcohol for years and yet will be buying a crap load when im 18 , I dont drink much only the occasional pint because i enjoy it as a SOCIAL DRINK! I dont drink just to get pissed and thats why i hate vodka .

Ill happily pay more if it means the drunken drug addicts sponging off the government benefits wont be able to afford it!.

[Zak33]

Rave is NOT an alcoholic, and I'd request people refrain from such posts.

I happen to agree with Rave on this subject. Tesco/Morrisons/Asda etc are currently competing by selling alcohol below it's cost to them. They do this to entice clients in who then, almost every time, buy some other stuff while they're there.

I, for example, wanted some cheap strogbow and guiness on Thursday night, and beacause I had to do a full weekly shop that evening too, Tesco, my much disliked personal un-favourite store, got my business. £32 on booze... over £100 on food. I knew I was paying too much for the brocolli and the carrots, because I was getting a good deal on the booze and could not be bothered to drive to another shop, to buy the veg.

So... Tesco/Morrisons/Adsa etc would LOVE to be /cough "forced" into stopping this practice. Because they're make more money.

It's like their attempt to "save the environment" by selling people bags and trying hard not to give the cheap plastic ones away. These big boys don't REALLY care for the enviroment.. not really. They care about money.

So, I fully agree with Rave on most of this debate.

Except... I DO feel sorry for the Police and the Nightclubs/Bars... because THEY have to "literally" pay the cost of the Fri/Sat night violence. It would be OK if the Tesco Express that sold the cheap Vodka 400 yeards away from the nightclub, had to PAY for the violence that escalates from the preloading drinkers who have a bottle before going clubbing.. but they don't. The nightclubs/Bars/police have to pay for the security/staff/insurance/policing AND they sel less drink themselves in the process.

DirectHex... in answer to your question: I really don't know. The Spanish, in my experiece, just don't get totally plastered and fight every night.. they just don't.

Nor the French. (they're just surrender I think) and tbh even the German's dont ruck quite like the UK do after a few too many.

It's gotta be blamed on the Sun newspaper I think

[SiM]

This thread reminds me of this old classic tune
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roHazfJxDsw

[Rob_B]

My idea is:
1) Give out free 100% alcohol to everyone that opts out of the health service.
2) Let nature take its course.
3) Burn dead bodies of the alcoholics to generate energy.
4) The rest of us can live in a better society.



Otherwise anything to increase prices and tax income from alcohol will do!

What an absolutely stupid idea, have you no common sense?.....






...with that amount of alcohol in their systems you couldn't get a controlled burn on the bodies

[MadduckUK]

minimum price is fine by me, i wouldn't drink the cheapest unless the cheapest is all i can afford, and thankfully im marginally above that right now

i am sad for past-life self that would be paying more for his fix on the promenade however.

[TooNice]

Except... I DO feel sorry for the Police and the Nightclubs/Bars... because THEY have to "literally" pay the cost of the Fri/Sat night violence. It would be OK if the Tesco Express that sold the cheap Vodka 400 yeards away from the nightclub, had to PAY for the violence that escalates from the preloading drinkers who have a bottle before going clubbing.. but they don't. The nightclubs/Bars/police have to pay for the security/staff/insurance/policing AND they sel less drink themselves in the process.

I find it misguided to hate on supermarkets "because they are only in for the money", yet feel sorry for the reduced profit nightclubs make from the sales of alcohol at rip-off price. There are no saints here, the nightclubs aren't charging high prices because they are concerned with the welfare of the clients (beyond anyone dying within the premises, that'll cause them bad PR/inconvenience), they are charging said price in order to maximise their profit knowing that people tend to be 'looser' with their spending in such environment.

[Haiku32]

Minimum pricing won't solve anything. If somebody wants to get drunk then they will find a way. It's nothing to do with the price, it's the whole culture of drinking. We grow up expected to drink. People start younger and younger because they see older brothers and sisters or people at school doing it. I think when it comes down to basics, the reason (especially) young people drink excessively is because there is nothing else to do. You spend all week at work/uni (sometimes both) and you just want a release at the weekend. What other way can you spend your Friday night with your friends? Well, I'm sure there are other things but the easy option is just to go to a club and get drunk. Almost guaranteed fun. I don't really blame people for wanting to drink every weekend.

[Tikkabhuna]

Except... I DO feel sorry for the Police and the Nightclubs/Bars... because THEY have to "literally" pay the cost of the Fri/Sat night violence. It would be OK if the Tesco Express that sold the cheap Vodka 400 yeards away from the nightclub, had to PAY for the violence that escalates from the preloading drinkers who have a bottle before going clubbing.. but they don't. The nightclubs/Bars/police have to pay for the security/staff/insurance/policing AND they sel less drink themselves in the process.

Pubs and Clubs probably don't care. They would make that money by getting people drunk in the first place.

I think binge drinking is inevitable now and rather than trying to shout to a crowd of people "NO! You should not drink over 4 units a day!!" They should accept that it happens and focus on reducing drunk violence and making it look bad to get paralytic.

Smoking has now become a bad habit in students eyes now. Whenever someone smokes on a student night out people are frown away from it. Nobody thinks it is cool any more. Same with some drugs, mephedrone was pretty hated by quite a lot of people. The government just has to get into schools and accept that people will drink but say how its "un-cool" to get too drunk and get in fights.

[digit]

Pubs and Clubs probably don't care. They would make that money by getting people drunk in the first place.

I think binge drinking is inevitable now and rather than trying to shout to a crowd of people "NO! You should not drink over 4 units a day!!" They should accept that it happens and focus on reducing drunk violence and making it look bad to get paralytic.

Smoking has now become a bad habit in students eyes now. Whenever someone smokes on a student night out people are frown away from it. Nobody thinks it is cool any more. Same with some drugs, mephedrone was pretty hated by quite a lot of people. The government just has to get into schools and accept that people will drink but say how its "un-cool" to get too drunk and get in fights.

I completely agree, education is whats needed. Thinking back to secondary school and college nothing was said at all about drinking and knowing limits, I hope plans are in place to make changes in that area, it needs to be drilled in.

I'd add in my experience its the idiots who drink excessive amounts whilst watching sports in the pubs that then go out into town that are the biggest problem. NOT the average group of friends who are going on a regular friday or Saturday night out.

[TooNice]

@Haiku32: Personally, I think it's a 'learnt' habit. One thing to have a social drink (quite universal except perhaps in countries where it's forbidden where it's probably done in privacy), but quite another to drink so much to puke one's guts out. I never got into it, and in a way, I am quite glad that I didn't 'learn' to like it before deciding it's not for me (if anything, it's money I can spend on other things).

What I think is quite true is that people hang around with others who are similar to them. Smokers *tend* to stick together, people who do drugs are more likely to hang around with others who are into it.. and binge/social drinkers also tend to stick together (with various overlaps). I can have 'almost guaranteed fun' just having a long dinner with friends then going to a club to dance with little if any alcohol. Or just go to a friend's place to play cards/computer games. And as I've found out, I am not alone, though it does feel like a minority. Those who needs alcohol may find it boring, in the same way that I find the need to abuse alcohol pointless.

But as I've said before as well, I also don't think a minimum price can overwrite people's social habit. Isn't the price elasticity of alcohol fairly inelastic?

[Kata]

If someone needs to be "educated" to realise that getting paralytic every night is not the best thing for them, they're probably already too thick/far-gone to be helped. I have no problem with this new law; because I actually drink responsibly, not just to get plastered!

[Zak33]

Pubs and Clubs probably don't care. They would make that money by getting people drunk in the first place.

go and find out how your local authority deals with those bars and clubs if they are reported by the Police to be selling alcohol in a totally detremental fashion.

I have been told "no more" in a bar in Aylesbury.. and they were right to say no, too. I'd had waaaay enough.

They are fined and have their licenses revoked totally if they cause or create too much grief.

Tesco's doesn't

Ever.

[Zak33]

I'd add in my experience its the idiots who drink excessive amounts whilst watching sports in the pubs that then go out into town that are the biggest problem. NOT the average group of friends who are going on a regular friday or Saturday night out.

not true

go find a cricket club or a rugby club who agree......

or a pool club who go out and get paraletic.....

you are type casting sports fans...

when Steve Redgrave/Matt Pincent and the other two less famous ones won gold.. again... that night I got totally wasted watching it over and over.

I didn't then go for a fight.