Gaza aid flotilla to set sail

[aidanjt]

Plenty of US laws claim extraterritorial applicability. Fr'example, the Helms-Burton act.

They can claim, but it has no jurisdictional or legal merit. Whoever wrote that Act was a complete moron.

The United States is free to set whatever foreign policy they wish, but they can't impose and prosecute US Federal law on other nations. Writing a foreign policy into law, beyond financing campaigns is stupid, pointless, and unenforceable, as the EU and other countries have already declared.

[AD-15]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/eu...545562651.html

Some interesting accounts there, very incriminating of the commandos' actions.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...425983666.html

More on Israel's selective use of footage:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...525843674.html

"Al Jazeera's own video of the conflict remains confiscated by Israel with no explanation as to why it won't be released."

Says everything in my opinion... Unbelievable.

On the legality of the assault:

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/2...723151689.html


Everyone has said plenty on the rights/wrongs of the flotilla situation, but there seems to be a lack of concentration on the actual blockade of the people of Gaza.

The blockade started the moment Hamas were democratically elected. Israel is employing, as usual, a policy of collective punishment in an attempt to, among other reasons, force Hamas out of power.

Not to mention Israel's countless crimes in the West Bank.

Many people like to blame the Palestinian people for electing "terrorists", but maybe they should look at how the actions (crimes) of the Israeli state towards the indigenous Arab people have influenced their lives and forced them into a decision to elect a group who could "stand up to" Israel.

The idea that you won't get any violent extremism emerging from a population despite all the oppression they've suffered is insane.

[aidanjt]

More on Israel's selective use of footage:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...525843674.html

The video clip I posted earlier already proves that those empty claims are full of crap. One Israeli soldier was stabbed with a knife. Others were beaten savagely with metal bars, one was tossed off the side of the ship, another tossed onto a lower deck.

And as I pointed out earlier, if the Israelis were shooting up the deck, then why was the deck full of people brandishing weapons when they hit it?

[AD-15]

Your videos disprove nothing mate.

I am not claiming the Israeli commandos were not attacked with instruments onboard the ship. Although, they probably deserved it.

And as I pointed out earlier, if the Israelis were shooting up the deck, then why was the deck full of people brandishing weapons when they hit it?

I don't understand what you're trying to say - why wouldn't there be people on the deck if Israeli commandos hit the deck with gunfire before landing?

They were carrying firearms, not cannons.

EDIT: Your comments seem to suggest you are not concerned over Israel's selective use of footage, and the confiscation of footage which could possibly further incriminate Israeli action. Is this the case?

[aidanjt]

Your videos disprove nothing mate.

I am not claiming the Israeli commandos were not attacked with instruments onboard the ship. Although, they probably deserved it.

Yes they have, you just haven't given it any critical thought. You're stuck like a record on 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and even 5th hand accounts of the events that occurred, while ignoring 1st hand video evidence which completely contradicts the claims made by the people on the flotilla.

I don't understand what you're trying to say - why wouldn't there be people on the deck if Israeli commandos hit the deck with gunfire before landing?

They were carrying firearms, not cannons.

Ok, think of it this way, if someone was shooting at you from a helicopter, would you stand there waving your pipe at them, or would you bolt? If you answer anything other than 'bolt', you're a liar.

Furthermore, firearms kill people, that's what they're designed to do, marine commandos who're trained to board ships are expert shooters, if they were shooting to kill, the deck would have been full of dead people before they landed, not full of people waving weapons.

[Barrichello]

This is going to get interesting.....

http://uk.reuters.com/article/latest.../idUKLDE655077

Lock in those long Gold and crude oil positions now

[chuckskull]

Oh dear. That's not going to help at all. Going to end in all out war, unless one side backs down, which they won't.

Looks like, lots more dead bodies will be laid at the feet of the "whose invisible man in the sky is better" argument.

[kalniel]

Looks like, lots more dead bodies will be laid at the feet of the "whose invisible man in the sky is better" argument.

But they're the same God in both cases - they both agree on that much.

[neonplanet40]

Meh just grandstanding to be honest. Iran won't do nothing.

[chuckskull]

But they're the same God in both cases - they both agree on that much.

Quite right. I oversimplified a bit out of exasperation.

Meh just grandstanding to be honest. Iran won't do nothing.

Let's hope so.

[Brucelles]

But they're the same God in both cases - they both agree on that much.

Do they? I thought that Yahweh was only a Jewish god, and although Christians and Muslims both tried to expropriate him, he is still Jewish, to the Jews. My Jewish cousin put it that, "We can't stop other people worshipping him, and don't care if you do or not, but he won't listen to you if you are not Jewish."

So yeah, he's the same invisible sky fairy, but even more impotent for Muslims and Christians than is for Jews, and worshipping him and 10 shekels will buy you a cup of coffee in Israel.

[Brucelles]

Al Jazeera's own video of the conflict remains confiscated by Israel with no explanation as to why it won't be released."

Says everything in my opinion... Unbelievable.

Apparently all mobile phones and cameras were confiscated from every one of the kidnap victims. There was a huge demonstration in Paris on Saturday and I talked to someone who was helping out the activists and she said that the Israelis basically took everything they had except clothes, and said that they may be returned later. So, basically Israel knows that it can sucker some of the gullible as long as there is no contradictory video evidence.

[usxhe190]

Do they? I thought that Yahweh was only a Jewish god, and although Christians and Muslims both tried to expropriate him, he is still Jewish, to the Jews. My Jewish cousin put it that, "We can't stop other people worshipping him, and don't care if you do or not, but he won't listen to you if you are not Jewish."

Haha, your cousin is a funny guy. You can see why the Jews gets pissed off - they have this "leave us alone/mind your own business" mentality all the time

[TooNice]

Well, if the escort is 'on demand' then there is still a fairly good chance that those leading the aid convoy will understand that on a practical perspective, this may just lead to more bloodshed (possibly with them in the middle of it).

[aidanjt]

Apparently all mobile phones and cameras were confiscated from every one of the kidnap victims. There was a huge demonstration in Paris on Saturday and I talked to someone who was helping out the activists and she said that the Israelis basically took everything they had except clothes, and said that they may be returned later. So, basically Israel knows that it can sucker some of the gullible as long as there is no contradictory video evidence.

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=kidnap
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=arrest

At least try to hide your blatant anti-Israeli bias. But please, do carry on ignoring 1st hand video evidence in favour of exaggerated and out-right dishonest claims. That'll make you more rational and objective.

[Brucelles]

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=kidnap
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=arrest

At least try to hide your blatant anti-Israeli bias. But please, do carry on ignoring 1st hand video evidence in favour of exaggerated and out-right dishonest claims. That'll make you more rational and objective.

Kidnap: to steal, carry off, or abduct by force or fraud, esp. for use as a hostage or to extract ransom.

When you have heard as many lies, distortions and bull-merde claims from the Israeli government as I have you would be hard pressed to believe them if they said it was Monday. I have seen the video evidence, and I see that it's incomplete and likely to remain that way.

The thing about prejudice, is that it means pre-judgement, i.e. judgement without any evidence. Since Israel has consistently lied, obfuscated and twisted the truth for decades it is my considered judgement that it would be stupidity bordering on the idiotic to believe anything the Israeli government says. I tend to believe the peace activists, and if the Israelis can come up with a convincing story that doesn't contradict them, I will think about considering it.