Student protests - the students are awful arn't they?

[DannyM]

I'm a student, I claim from student finance.

I wasn't at the protests, the student fee rise will not effect me.

My stance on the matter? I believe it will help create a larger divide between the good and bad quality universities, I mean generally speaking you do get a good education out of a university but I imagine, people will pay more for a better education. However, I don't believe many 17/18/19 year olds are capable of grasping what a good education is, but that leads onto another subject which will just drag out. So, at this moment in time I am not really bothered.

So that in mind, I wouldn't protest, however, if I was there, I'd be raging proper raging.

I live in Bradford, I had the joy of witnessing some events of the Bradford riots, and I know the police have to put up with a lot of sh.t. It's unfortunate at times, but it is their job, they are paid for it, it's their life.

Each officer is a person, whose purpose is to enforce the law, but they are still people, like me, you, your next door neighbour, your milk man, your local car thief, the chav that stands on the street corner. People who are capable of making wrong and right decisions, people who get annoyed, angry, upset, they are human.

If I was a police officer at the protest, I wouldn't really care about the students, I'm there to do my job, that's exactly what I'll do, a days work, go home, have dinner with the family, watch some TV, go to bed, back to work.

If I was a student at the protest, I'd want to make my point, I'd want to be heard so I'll protest, I'll shout, scream do what I feel is necessary to make a point. Yet I know for a fact no matter how loud I shout or scream nobody in the government will be bothered, they will do what they need to do to apparently make things right.

However, a bunch of police officers coming towards me on horses to get me to clear off, is intimidating and would probably send me past my boiling point and straight into rage (I have been around a few horses and all though they are intimidating, their not invincible, if somebody had really lost their nerve things could of got out of hand quickly).

Why should I as a protester, who wants to make a point and wants change, that's why I am there, be forcefully removed from an area when my point has not been made because no change has occurred? That would be like England turning up for a football match against another team and not playing the game... (they already do that I know, but just trying to make a point)

People protest for change, people riot, because no change occurs and they feel as though their point is not been made, the issue isn't the protesters or the police, it's the people that can effect change, in this case the government.

Students are there to make a point, the police are there to do their jobs, they don't care about the change, it doesn't effect them, they just need to do their job, which in this case was to control the crowd and clear them of the area.

The only solution to the problem is to remove the police and put the people who have made the changes, so that they can see for themselves what it means to others, so that they can care and understand what they have done has upset a lot of people, unfortunately, they don't care, they just want to get on with their lives, go home, have dinner, spend time with family and go to bed, then go to work and so on and so forth.

As for the women losing her wallet/purse?

If it had of happened to me, I'd be really annoyed, I'd point fingers and I would want my wallet back, so I see where shes coming from and why she is annoyed.

As a police officer at a protest, I couldn't care, I'm standing in front of 1,000+ people I don't have time to personally cater for each individual I'm at work, I have my training in crowd control I know what to do and I have my orders, deal with the crowd, send them on their way, go home, job done.

At a protest, it's your own fault for what you have lost really, you cant expect the police to deal with you there and then whilst another thousand or so people want to get past them. It's tough luck really and she's an idiot for waving it around.

[format]

Danny - that's a good post, very balanced. Thanks.

Read her quote. She doesn't know what happened to her wallet. 'Probably threw it on the floor' is intresting supposition, as it simply means she doesn't know what had happened, its also an unlikely act from a police officer in the middle of a riot. I would accept that it was nocked out of her hand, by someone who had a million other things on their mind rather than mugging a girl.

She said the police 'took her<removed> wallet' That's a direct quote. It's quite clear and doesn't really leave much room for interpretation.

[Biscuit]

Why is it i start reading a Saracen post, scroll down... scroll down... scrolll down... OMG how does he drag this out for so long, please dont reply to him please OMG YOU REPLIED. Basically, TL;DR.

I wouldnt take what that girl has to say as an actual event which has any real relevance. She lost her wallet in a crowd of people who's agenda was clearly mixed between protesting and generally being a pain in the ass so yeah, shes going to be wound up.

Maybe the police shouldn't have 'charged' or whatever you want to call what they did, to be quite honest though, no-one has been confirmed of receiving anything more than bruising. Whats the freakin problem then? I have come away from raves with worse than just a little bruise.

I really don't see how trying to make the police a martyr is going to work out for them.

[Blitzen]

Hey maybe we should just go the whole hog and massacre the students with guns - Tienanmen style!

Good idea
They were an embarassment to a nation the way they acted.
In fact, the money it costs to police these idiots whilst they are 'protesting' should've been added to the cost of their education aswell.

[Blitzen]

People protest for change, people riot, because no change occurs and they feel as though their point is not been made

No...people protest because they cannot get their own way. The same as children have a strop if they are told to do something they do not want to.

People then riot, because it is the last futile course of action. For so called 'intelligent people' i am suprised that they didn't realise that a riot NEVER enforces change.

[DannyM]

No...people protest because they cannot get their own way. The same as children have a strop if they are told to do something they do not want to.

This is true, but when a large majority of students from Universities around the UK are protesting, I would hardly compare it to that of a child strop, you are obviously very much against the protests. So I won't argue to try and sway you, as I say, I'm not too fussed about the whole situation.

However, everyone has beliefs, everyone has an opinion, so people are entitled to show their opinion are they not? To compare protesting to that of a child having a strop is, idiotic at best. A child can't distinguish between right or wrong, all that child want's is what is best for him/her at that time in that environment.

It's not like a child, can read something in the news, then grasp how much of an impact what they have read will have on them, then realise they need to do something about it. At least have a half ounce of respect for peoples independent thinking and beliefs. If people believe in something strongly enough to get off their backsides (especially lazy students) then I think it's safe to say that they have a strong opinion on the matter and want change.

As for rioting, I'm inclined to agree with you on that matter, but you say:

For so called 'intelligent people' i am suprosed that they didn't realise that a riot NEVER enforces change.

I hate the word intelligent, many of the students there may have a higher IQ than me or you, but they believe they need to change things and the only way they know how to do that is to protest. Rioting is an act of human emotion, as stated here, if your in a crowd and can barely move and are been pushed around, I imagine your boiling point isn't far off, so although people don't go to riot, people may well end up losing their temper rather quickly.

[format]

Good idea
They were an embarassment to a nation the way they acted.
In fact, the money it costs to police these idiots whilst they are 'protesting' should've been added to the cost of their education aswell.

Can't tell if you're a brilliant troll or an enthusiastic fascist.

[DannyM]

Well worth a watch if you get time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm48n08Xth4

Mostly relevant to this topic too.

[peterb]

Why is it i start reading a Saracen post, scroll down... scroll down... scrolll down... OMG how does he drag this out for so long, please dont reply to him please OMG YOU REPLIED. Basically, TL;DR.

Well if your attitude to Saracen's posts is tl;dr

my reply would be yl;nh

There might be a reply early on, but then he goes on to give an explanation for his reply, which may be opinion based on experience, opinion based on fact, or just fact. But it won't be a "Because I say it is" reply. To many one liner posts in these topics (and I'm not pointing the finger at you, or anyone else) just state an opinion without any justification - so the opinion either gets flamed (rarely - we'll make sure of that) or ignored because it is largely worthless in informing the discussion .

(yl;nh - your loss;not his)

[santa claus]

The ballot box is the best response if the decisions of the Government of the day are not to your liking. Mr Clegg has dropped one almighty clanger with this issue; the so-called & worthless pledge has effectively buried the future that the Libdems sought by lapdogging to the Tories.

Mr Cameron must be delighted - a hugely unpopular Tory policy and he's not even having to answer for it. Over to you "Deputy Prime Minister"; I hope the NHS will get extra funding following that hospital pass.

Nice try for power Libdems but, you lost the race before you even got out of the blocks

[Biscuit]

Well if your attitude to Saracen's posts is tl;dr

my reply would be yl;nh

There might be a reply early on, but then he goes on to give an explanation for his reply, which may be opinion based on experience, opinion based on fact, or just fact. But it won't be a "Because I say it is" reply. To many one liner posts in these topics (and I'm not pointing the finger at you, or anyone else) just state an opinion without any justification - so the opinion either gets flamed (rarely - we'll make sure of that) or ignored because it is largely worthless in informing the discussion .

(yl;nh - your loss;not his)

No i get that, it just tends to be very much along the lines of 'legal speak' that can honestly make reading it a complete chore. In some cases i see these posts and i think, 'bah cant be arsed with the thread' even if i have something valid to say which i can back up with experience. Its like being back at work and reading client proposals/contracts etc.
Different generation maybe, different profession maybe... dont know and i didnt intend to insult or anything it just sometimes makes replying to something very difficult without ignoring it completely.

Anyway... back to topic

[petercook7]

Scottish and welsh students fees aren’t going up, just English students fees now how is that fair? on top of that Scottish and welsh students can even study at English unis and no fee increase, but English students will pay higher fees at Scottish/welsh universities.

[santa claus]

scotish and welsh students fees arnt going up, just english students fees now how is that fair? on top of that scotish and welse students can even study at englisg unis and no free imcrease, but english students will pay higher fees at scotish/ welsh universities.

Possibly because the semi-literate need to be tutored more intensively? Sorry, jk

I think it's political choice: Scotland and Wales can choose to use their budget the way they wish but they will have to balance the books by robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[petercook7]

Possibly because the semi-literate need to be tutored more intensively? Sorry, jk

I think it's political choice: Scotland and Wales can choose to use their budget the way they wish but they will have to balance the books by robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Had a nap, just woke up.

[santa claus]

Had a nap, just woke up.

I know that feeling .

[Saracen]

No i get that, it just tends to be very much along the lines of 'legal speak' that can honestly make reading it a complete chore. In some cases i see these posts and i think, 'bah cant be arsed with the thread' even if i have something valid to say which i can back up with experience. Its like being back at work and reading client proposals/contracts etc.
Different generation maybe, different profession maybe... dont know and i didnt intend to insult or anything it just sometimes makes replying to something very difficult without ignoring it completely.

Anyway... back to topic

Believe it or not, I don't design my posts to suit what you can or can't be bothered to read. If you don't want to read it, don't read it. But I'm getting sick and bleeping tired of a few people with people telling me how to post. Keep your criticism to yourself.