Liam Fox has apologized...

[blueball]

...that makes it all OK I guess

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15234897

[santa claus]

Hmm, how...erm...'special' is their relationship out of interest?

[Whiternoise]

I thought he was Dr Fox? Or is the BBC taking a casual snipe?

[MadduckUK]

Werritty

[pollaxe]

Hmm, how...erm...'special' is their relationship out of interest?

I suspect possibly a little more special than was first assumed... /speculation

[TheAnimus]

Hmm, how...erm...'special' is their relationship out of interest?

Is it looking 'special' or just the usual nepotistical twattisim we're accustomed to in politics?

[Raz316]

There's something irritating and familiar about this apology. It's the same for every politician (it seems).

"Hey, we notice you're doing this, and we think it's suspect"
"I've done nothing wrong"
"How about this evidence then? What do you have to say about this?"
"Im so sorry "

I'd prefer it if they stuck to their guns if they believed they actually hadn't done anything wrong. But it's the same old damage limitation BS.

[b0redom]

Personally I think Dr. Fox should go back to DJing. He seemed to offend fewer people doing that.

[Saracen]

First, I wanna see facts not just allegations before forming a personal conclusion.

Second, how much of what's going on did Liam Fox know about? For instance, claims to be an "advisor" and that business card.As I understand it (from a report) when Fox found out about that, he told Werrity to stop doing it.

Third, 14 visits to MoD in 16 months? Define "visit". Formal business meeting, or stopping off at the office before two friend go out for lunch? And how long's a "visit"? 5 minutes waiting in reception, or Fox's outer office, or something more?

Fourth, that meeting with the Sri Lankan President. One account was that Werrity and Fox were attending a lecture and the Sri Lankan President was there too, and a meeting resulted. If so, it's understandable.

Fifth, meetings in Abu Dhabi, or wherever it was. Who organised them, what was the point of them, who else attended and who paid for what?

There certainly are questions to be answered, and some of it doesn't look good. But appearances can be deceptive. I want to see the results of the inquiry before leaping to conclusions.

So, right now, I have questions and no opinions.

[santa claus]

-----scan be deceptive.

You're sounding more like David Cameron everyday . It seems that Dr Fox and his friend have had meetings all over the World.

Oh and is the quote exerpt above a typing error or a subliminal message ?

[Saracen]

....

Oh and is the quote exerpt above a typing error or a subliminal message ?

typo. One too many s's.

You're sounding more like David Cameron everyday . It seems that Dr Fox and his friend have had meetings all over the World.

It does seem that way, but again, let's wait for actual facts before judging. It may well be that something in this really stinks and that it'll finish Fox's ministerial career, but it may also be that's it's largely innocuous and just looks bad.

For instance, apparently Werrity has had involvement with Sri Lankan charities for years, and certainly well before the last election when Fox gained power. So, much has been made of that London meeting with the Sri Lankan President, but in the absence of actual facts, who's to say that the Sri Lankan President doesn't know Werrity in his own right, in that role, and when he bumped into Werrity and Fox (who are friends, after all) he invited both Fox and Werrity for a private chat and coffee?

All I'm saying is that things aren't necessarily how they appear, and I certainly don't trust either newspapers or opposition politicians to present a balanced, impartial view. Papers want sensationalist stories to sell papers and any opposition (of whatever political colour) jumps all over any opportunity to make the government squirm, let alone claim a major political scalp.

Maybe a scalp needs to be claimed here, maybe it doesn't. And newspapers can have a very useful role in bringing this sort of thing to the public eye, and to making sure it's not swept under the rug. So they keep government's reasonably honest, but always remember they have their own agenda, and if it sells papers, it meets their agenda whether it ends up claiming a scalp or not, and whether it was justified or not.

And another thing. I wonder how this came to light? Even that has implications.

Somebody, apparently, tipped off the press. Which begs the question .... why?

Bear in mind that Fox has gone into a department with horrendous issues. I mean, the MoD's procurement process is abysmal, and has cost this country billions, entirely unnecessarily. Part of that is down to MoD staff, as I understand it, and senior levels of the armed forces aren't exactly covered in glory by their empire-building either. So, there's plenty of vested interest that would like nothing more than to derail Fox, both in his personal agenda to clean the Aegean stables, and in the program of military funding cuts, and a good political scandal is a damn good start, whether there's any substantive issues or not.

So if Cameron is sounding like that, good. Because if there has been actual wrong-doing, those responsible can be politically hung, drawn and quartered for all I care. But only if there's actual wrong-doing, and even then, nail those doing it and only those doing it, and through due process, not media trial. And always bear in mind that there are motives for slinging .... erm .... muck, on the basis that merely slinging it is damaging, regardless of the truth.

So yes, let's wait for facts, not allegation or innuendo. Or would you rather, if this is just an insider smear-job, that the MoD goes on wasting billions of tax-payer's money?

[santa claus]

Oh I agree we should await the facts. It will be interesting to find out why Doc Fox and AW were together in Singapore, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Hong Kong, Israel, New Zealand, Australia, Qatar, Sri Lanka, Tampa and Washington.

I don't think we need to worry about the MoD wasting tax payer's money on the Conservative watch do we? That couldn't happen .

Won't be long before Labour returns . Bah, politicians and bankers, they're dragging us all through the dirt.

[Saracen]

Oh I agree we should await the facts. It will be interesting to find out why Doc Fox and AW were together in Singapore, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Hong Kong, Israel, New Zealand, Australia, Qatar, Sri Lanka, Tampa and Washington.

Indeed, it will. I'm waiting with baited breath to see if there's a plausible explanation for that .... and I'm struggling to imagine what it could be.

.....
I don't think we need to worry about the MoD wasting tax payer's money on the Conservative watch do we? That couldn't happen .

....

There's a difference between spending what you've got well, and just spending more. The MoD may have a lot less to waste but that doesn't mean they aren't quite capable of wasting a good chunk of it.

....

Won't be long before Labour returns . Bah, politicians and bankers, they're dragging us all through the dirt.

'Red' (*) Ed might not be too bad, but I shudder at the notion of the Balls-up his current Chancellor might make of things ..... again. It turns out Heseltine was prophetic in the mid 90-s ....

"So there you have it. The final proof. Labour's brand new shining modernist economic dream. But it wasn't Brown's. It was Ball's!"

It sure was.



(*) Noting, of course, that he reckons he's right in the centre ..... but that the centre has moved to the left. I'm surprised the bloke doesn't get giddy just trying to stand still.

[blueball]

Part of the MoD black hole came about because the Labour government did not pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Normal funding is for peacetime operations and further government funding is to be supplied if war is declared, but we were forced to fight these two little beauties using the normal funding.

[santa claus]

But think of what Gordon and Labour saved us by keeping us out of the euro.

I'm surprised the bloke doesn't get giddy just trying to stand still.

Aww, poor bugger can't breathe properly with that conk no wonder he gets giddy.

[Saracen]

But think of what Gordon and Labour saved us by keeping us out of the euro.

You've got me there .... at least, in relation to Brown. It was, as I understand it, the subject of considerable disagreement between Blair and Brown, and Brown won that one, thank goodness. For all my dislike of Brown (and his supposed economic prowess), I'll give him that one.