Faluja House to House

[shiato storm]

just watching this on bbc2 as reporters follow the Americans round faluja, doing house to house raids and fighting in the streets. Its fair to say the americans are not the surgical fighting force they make out to be...more like force by numbers. BUT that said its fairly gripping stuff!

[Shogun]

Yea i've noticed in all the news footage that when filmed the troops seem to lose all sense of urban fighting and seem to run down the middle of the street...

[shiato storm]

yes I noticed that too...
"hey guys, lets run down the middle of the street in a big group, they'll never see us in our camo-gear"...

[RVF500]

Having trained at fighting in built up areas (FIBUA) for 2 years in Berlin. This was before the wall came down. I can tell you that it is the dirtiest and most brutal and confusing form of warfare that an individual soldier can get involved in. I also noticed that the Americans had a much more standoffish approach to the subject than we did. In fact they hated exercising against the British troops as we were much more brutal about it even in training.

It's not a surgical way of fighting and is a catalogue of dirty tricks. The yanks are actually not doing a bad job and their casualty figures show this. They have gone through the city in a very short time. As far as I have seen civilian casualties have been kept to a minimum. FIBUA is a very labour intensive exercise and sucks in large amounts of troops into a very small area. We worked on an average 50% casualties on any assault against Warsaw pact troops in an urban environment. That's assuming a successful assault. A small apartment block would be considered a company sized objective.

[shiato storm]

wow, cheers for that insight. I know just by watching what the americans you can see they are pretty hyped-up [scared?] and quite jumpy. maybe they'd need to take a few lessons from the GB troops on urban combat. I know I'd get quite an adrenaline rush from house to house stuff, not knowing exactly what you'd get. Its also fascinating to see taht only a handful of iraqis can pin down a squad of troops - regardless of them running up and down the middle of a street.

[[GSV]Trig]

FIBUA isnt America's way of doing things, they'd rather just level the place with artillery...

[Gordy]

As said above fighting in built up areas is a nightmare for any army, to get one/two well defended people takes masses of manpower/effort

[iMc]

Sorry for my ignorance but what does FIBUA stand for? I guess the last bit is Urban Assault?

[Skii]

As said above fighting in built up areas is a nightmare for any army, to get one/two well defended people takes masses of manpower/effort

Exactly, plus you are dealing with an unseen enemy that will pretend to be an innocent civilian one second and then pick up a rifle when your back is turned.

Not nice at all.

[blockers]

FIBUA = fighting in built up areas

i guess...:S

[iMc]

oh right cheers.

[Sk!mD4Rk]

The terrorists (insurgents, lol) know Faluja well, whereas the yanks do not. Taking that into consideration i'm amazed that there isn't more casualties than there allready is.

I hesitate to call them insurgents because i don't think they're driven by the desire for freedom or independence. I believe they just want to cause as much pain and suffering as possible and have no interest in a modern day Iraqi government/leadership. I'd refer to them as anarchists with such a bitter loathing of western/European lifestyle/beliefs.

It was indeed compulsive viewing and who would want to be in there shoes. Hats off to the film crew as well because as we know they are just as much a valid target as the soldiers with recent happenings.

[shiato storm]

true true...quite shocking pictures when they show a soldier hit in the leg with a severed artery, or even a few dead 'insurgents' scattered about within the rubble [due to heavy weapons fire. utterly mad.
mind you the yanks were acting like a bunch of cowboys at a paintball range.

[Gordy]

The Americans doctrine is force protection.

In other words, any threat and they just put tons of firepower into it, regardless of collateral damage.

For example, 150 marines got pinned down by one sniper last week, they had 2 airstrikes, 150mm artillery, and mortars, they also fired approx 30'000 rounds of ammo, the crazy thing is, after this the sniper was seen making a get away on a pushbike :/

I also saw marines clearing a house and coming across two insurgents who chucked grenades at them, they retreated, then fired 2 javelin anti armour missiles into the room before re-entering.

Better to chuck half a ton of firepower at it than risk soldiers you can't blaim them

[shiato storm]

For example, 150 marines got pinned down by one sniper last week, they had 2 airstrikes, 150mm artillery, and mortars, they also fired approx 30'000 rounds of ammo, the crazy thing is, after this the sniper was seen making a get away on a pushbike

sledge hammer to crack a walnut...

[RVF500]

It is very much a case of sledgehammer to crack a walnut. In this case the walnut is actually better equipped at an individual level. The AK47 is better suited to the type of warfare that we are seeing in Falluja. You may (or may not) have noticed some of the US troops equipping themselves with AK47s.

The walnut can also use it's local knowledge to great effect. The threat is 360 degrees as there are no real fixed lines and combat distances are measured in just a few metres. Superior marksmanship goes by the wayside here. Firepower counts. One man can control a significant area and be well protected and hidden. Forcing attacking forces to use overwhelming firepower or risk high casualties to winkle out the one man who may well have departed before his positionisfinally overrun. You normally discover his location initially when he opens fire from point blank range.

In Berlin in 1945 the Soviets unloaded 2 armies into the city to defeat what was left of the German forces. They still took an almighty kicking from the under strength and poorly equipped 'walnuts' defending the city. The official figures are 100, 000 casualties, 5000 alone in storming the Reichstag, the real figures are probably much higher. Dunno what the German losses where. The Soviets would clear a street and the locals would run along the underground railway and come up behind the Soviets and attack from the rear. The Soviets evenput tanks into the underground but the local were armed with a plethora of anti tank weapons. Tanks are very vulnerable in urban areas. A lone tank often needs a squad of infantry to protect it. Th top armour is thin and the engine covers are vulnerable. Hence a simple petrol bomb thrown from the window of a building can immobilise a tank. Shoulder fired anti tank weapoons are infinitely more effective in this way too.

Add booby traps and you have hell on earth. The British army trains extensively at FIBUA. Still to be avoided if at all possible though.