The Iraqi Nightmare

[OilSheikh]

Maybe we should offer some sort of trade off; all Muslims(who want to) in West can return to an Islamic Country, and Christians in Arab countries move West.

Been there, done that i.e. Crusades

Found the best picture on the net. I am pretty sure it has been used in a lot of professional newspapers as well

[wasabi]

Been there, done that i.e. Crusades

That was rather a long time ago. the West has moved on. Sadly, other parts of the world have not.

[wasabi]

Been there, done that i.e. Crusades

Found the best picture on the net. I am pretty sure it has been used in a lot of professional newspapers as well

Image link no worky - I think you mean this:

[Galant]

Close to home.

"The Islamic State militant group has released a video online purporting to show the killing of a US journalist.

The journalist was identified by the militants as James Foley. He has been missing since he was seized by armed men in Syria in 2012.

The video has not been independently verified. The US government has not yet commented on the issue.

Mr Foley has reported extensively across the Middle East."

For me at least, it's hard to conceive of the IS threat actually managing to form a true state. Some have said they've already over-stretched themselves, others point out that the bigger and more 'official' they become the bigger and easier a target they become.

Nevertheless, this has to be the most belligerent, driven move by Islamic militants in memory. At the very least a statement is being made here that won't soon be forgotten (and this doesn't seem even close to being over). One starts to wonder what the counter statement should be, or should there be one?

[wasabi]

For me at least, it's hard to conceive of the IS threat actually managing to form a true state.

They should get exactly what they want. Being treated like a state. One which has attacked and slaughtered citizens of another state.

Then the reprisals.

[j1979]

Close to home.

"The Islamic State militant group has released a video online purporting to show the killing of a US journalist.

The journalist was identified by the militants as James Foley. He has been missing since he was seized by armed men in Syria in 2012.

The video has not been independently verified. The US government has not yet commented on the issue.

Mr Foley has reported extensively across the Middle East."

For me at least, it's hard to conceive of the IS threat actually managing to form a true state. Some have said they've already over-stretched themselves, others point out that the bigger and more 'official' they become the bigger and easier a target they become.

Nevertheless, this has to be the most belligerent, driven move by Islamic militants in memory. At the very least a statement is being made here that won't soon be forgotten (and this doesn't seem even close to being over). One starts to wonder what the counter statement should be, or should there be one?

Just watched the video of the beheading. sorry to his family, I feel bad for watching it, yet I wanted to hear this supposed British accent.

And yes the voice of the killer is from London. Shocking.

[OilSheikh]

US invades Iraq
ISIS invades Iraq
US invades ISIS
loop

[TheAnimus]

Well 'people' don't - at least, not in educated countries - hate speech and violent actions are forbidden by law. Other Islamic groups don't either. So as far as I can tell, only the people committing these crimes are the ones allowing these views to continue, no-one else.

George Galloway, last week.

Outside Tesco by bank this morning, some nut jobs telling us all how we are going to be horribly, horribly punished for not reading the books he was handing out for free.

That's before we even get to the Scientology lot "a potential menace to the personality and well-being of those so deluded as to become its followers" to quote an MP.

Again I can't see that happening in this country. Quite fair to teach that some interpretations of some religions don't believe in evolution, but that should be part of religious education, not science.

It is

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Curricu...ail/story.html

What's worrying is we end up funding and subsidising this nonsense.

http://news.tes.co.uk/b/news/2014/02...onist-zoo.aspx

I mean, I just can't begin to think why we have this nonsense, we've put man on the moon ffs. How on earth can you be so dumb as to believe their agenda. Oh wait! Religion, compared to believing in some zombie visiting us, and giving no sign of creator god, except that one, but wanting worship. If teach people such dissidence of logic, you can get them to believe any nonsense, I guess this is why North Korea still functions.

Which I think most of the world agrees is wrong. But we've had similar purges for other reasons too - religion, race, sect, country of origin. As explained in that link people often act in group/gang mentality, to the detriment of other groups/gangs, and they will find whatever distinguishing factor as a reason to discriminate.

Absolutely, as I say often these things are economic with any excuse put in. But when the catholic church doesn't even condemn the systematic extermination of people, because of political concerns, yet systematically spreads lies and prevents disease control you question precisely what they are for. One thing becomes apparent, they are great for destroying reason.

Someone once told me a neat way of describing it in regards to infallibility.. but I can't remember it. It was something like God is infallible, but we only see him through fallible words/humans. The fallibility of the bible (because it was human touched) should not take away from the infallibility of God, but it certainly makes things a lot harder.

This is such a brilliant exercise in doublethink. The fact is we have words, we have understanding that is less fallible than the bible.

Not quite sure I get this, is it about correlation/causation?

It's the if you take an isolated bad action, people complain that you aren't looking at the good things. The gun debate is classic, a kid shoots up a school, and people so feverishly jump to say, look at all the good things guns do, as if that some how exonerates the problem.

[TooNice]

Killing many thousands of people is not sabre rattling. Nor can it any longer be brushed off as a few radical extremists like the Western media want.

I agree with the first part, but if you are talking about the IS specifically, I never had the impression that Western media have brushed them off as a few radical extremists.

[kalniel]

George Galloway, last week.

Outside Tesco by bank this morning, some nut jobs telling us all how we are going to be horribly, horribly punished for not reading the books he was handing out for free.

That's before we even get to the Scientology lot "a potential menace to the personality and well-being of those so deluded as to become its followers" to quote an MP.

Ok, perhaps I should have specified sane people.

It is

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Curricu...ail/story.html

And the argument against private schools increases. The national curriculum doesn't allow this. What the Tories are doing increasing the number of schools that don't follow national guidelines I don't know, but this is what they can expect to result.

Absolutely, as I say often these things are economic with any excuse put in. But when the catholic church doesn't even condemn the systematic extermination of people, because of political concerns, yet systematically spreads lies and prevents disease control you question precisely what they are for. One thing becomes apparent, they are great for destroying reason.

Again, don't judge the religion by the organisation. The RC church has many failings, as does the CofE or any other human run organisation. That shouldn't be the sole representation of religion though. Likewise IS probably shouldn't be taken as the sole representation of Islam.

This is such a brilliant exercise in doublethink. The fact is we have words, we have understanding that is less fallible than the bible.

I think you're overthinking it. It's just a simple fact that humans aren't infallible, and humans were involved in the process.

It's the if you take an isolated bad action, people complain that you aren't looking at the good things. The gun debate is classic, a kid shoots up a school, and people so feverishly jump to say, look at all the good things guns do, as if that some how exonerates the problem.

In that, I agree with you completely. Only if you were generalising and saying 'guns/religion is bad' would such an argument come into play. My take is that as with many things, they can be misused by bad people.

[HalloweenJack]

would anyone get upset if north Iraq gets glassed?

[TheAnimus]

Ok, perhaps I should have specified sane people.

Whilst I agree that Galloway is beyond help, the guy outside tesco is quite rational. He just believes in a god, a vengeful god, an old testament god (the joke about what do Christians and Devs have in common, they hate supporting the old legacy version) if you believe the completely un-supported views he has, then preaching to everyone makes sense.

And the argument against private schools increases. The national curriculum doesn't allow this. What the Tories are doing increasing the number of schools that don't follow national guidelines I don't know, but this is what they can expect to result.

Do you mean free schools? The issue is that Tony Blair introduced funding for religious segregated schools. It is suggested (see the 'trojan' scandal) that they pay lip service to the national curriculum, whilst putting forward their agenda. "Well, we are required to tell you this nonsense".

Again, don't judge the religion by the organisation. The RC church has many failings, as does the CofE or any other human run organisation. That shouldn't be the sole representation of religion though. Likewise IS probably shouldn't be taken as the sole representation of Islam.

It's not, it's more about being a Machiavellian anthropologist, put on that hat for a moment, it becomes apparent that for controlling people, preventing their use of informed democracy, religion is great!

I think you're overthinking it. It's just a simple fact that humans aren't infallible, and humans were involved in the process.

The problem is we ask people to not be rational, to not think or question critically, because if you do, it makes no sense. Pascals Wager for instance, if you consider the separate deities, often with diametrically opposed requirements.

In that, I agree with you completely. Only if you were generalising and saying 'guns/religion is bad' would such an argument come into play. My take is that as with many things, they can be misused by bad people.

The issue for me is religion demands a specific kind of mind set, which can never truly accept other people's views that differ. A key component of most religions is the exclusivity.

[j1979]

would anyone get upset if north Iraq gets glassed?

If it were just full of Jihadists then I couldn't care less. But it's not, so many innocents (including some Sunnis) that are really just want to get on with living.

besides, now that it's almost confirmed over 200 UK citizens are fighting for ISIS (the ones they know of) the fight is hardly just Iraq / Syria. There could be blood on the streets of the UK.

[kalniel]

Do you mean free schools? The issue is that Tony Blair introduced funding for religious segregated schools. It is suggested (see the 'trojan' scandal) that they pay lip service to the national curriculum, whilst putting forward their agenda. "Well, we are required to tell you this nonsense".

Regarding state schools then that's what the inspectors should be catching. I thought the place you were talking about was a private school.

It's not, it's more about being a Machiavellian anthropologist, put on that hat for a moment, it becomes apparent that for controlling people, preventing their use of informed democracy, religion is great!

Of course, which is why it's abused by various organisations by their own ends. But it's far from the only thing which is abused so.

The problem is we ask people to not be rational, to not think or question critically, because if you do, it makes no sense. Pascals Wager for instance, if you consider the separate deities, often with diametrically opposed requirements.

As with the point below, I think you're making the mistake of judging all religion by the actions of one/a sub-branch. In the religions I personally know about, critical questioning is not only allowed, it's actively encouraged and more or less mandatory to being able to read the scriptures. On the contrary it is usually people outside of the religion that are taking what they read and not applying any critical reasoning behind what they think it says. If you hadn't guessed, it quite annoys me when otherwise intelligent people do that

The issue for me is religion demands a specific kind of mind set, which can never truly accept other people's views that differ. A key component of most religions is the exclusivity.

But there's a logical flaw in those statements - you are assuming that what applies in one religion (and one version of it at that) must therefore apply to all. That's provably not the case. You can't say "religion demands a specific kind of mind set, which can never truly accept other people's views that differ" when there are religions which preach acceptance of other people's views that differ.

[HalloweenJack]

If it were just full of Jihadists then I couldn't care less. But it's not, so many innocents (including some Sunnis) that are really just want to get on with living.

besides, now that it's almost confirmed over 200 UK citizens are fighting for ISIS (the ones they know of) the fight is hardly just Iraq / Syria. There could be blood on the streets of the UK.

why cant we get all the right wing extremists in the E and USA , arm them and let them loose in Iraq? would be a bloody mess , but it would thin the herd somehwhat

[Smudger]

would anyone get upset if north Iraq gets glassed?

Did you mean gassed?

I've got images of drunken Brits steaming off a plane, neckless bottles in hand, going 'right then, who wants some?'

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment...-1227030678878