1600 W maximum on vacuum cleaners from from Sept!

[Agent]

In 2017 the power limit drops to 900W, so we need to wait until about 2020 to know if this worked.

It'll be interesting to see if there is any correlation between asthma / allergy rates and power reduction, given how big of a role dust mites play in them.

[kalniel]

It'll be interesting to see if there is any correlation between asthma / allergy rates and power reduction, given how big of a role dust mites play in them.

Correlation.. almost certainly - allergies etc. are on the increase anyway so a bump at the same time as the legislation is quite likely even by chance IMHO. Establishing an causal link would be trickier.

[Top_gun]

Indeed those points are correct, but they bear no relation to why a cap is better than say energy ratings or some other more progressive scheme. As mentioned earlier, the cap is likely to be for less obviously 'good' reasons, such as encouraging trade/manufacture for a particular member state.

Not quite true, the EU directive on vacuum cleaners does include energy ratings and other progressive measures. If you think directive is only about power capping then it makes wonder if you fully understood the regulation.

[kalniel]

If you think directive is only about power capping

Which I don't.

then it makes wonder if you fully understood the regulation.

Makes what wonder?

[Top_gun]

Which I don't.
Makes what wonder?

Good, it now means your original question does not need an answer.

[kalniel]

Good, it now means your original question does not need an answer.

I'm not sure it was my question, but the question of why the EU would introduce a cap does seem to need an answer, or this thread wouldn't exist and you wouldn't be replying I gave my original answer much earlier, but the discussion delved deeper into whether a cap would be helpful to increasing efficiency. As I said, I don't think that's why we've got a cap, but the beeb article doesn't address either the deeper question or my rational for the the cap.

[DanceswithUnix]

Not quite true, the EU directive on vacuum cleaners does include energy ratings and other progressive measures. If you think directive is only about power capping then it makes wonder if you fully understood the regulation.

Perhaps you have picked up on something I haven't here.

The energy ratings seem to be best case and not over the duration of a job, so poorly thought out and prone to being gamed. What other progressive measures are there?

I still rate a power cap as just plain dumb. "Here engineers, make this better. To help you we take away one of your tools, no need to thank us".

It really doesn't seem that hard to do either. How about this...

Take a big clean carpet. Sprinkle a kilo of ash evenly over it. You have 10p in the electricity meter. How much of the 1kg can you get back before the money runs out?

[peterb]

Not quite true, the EU directive on vacuum cleaners does include energy ratings and other progressive measures. If you think directive is only about power capping then it makes wonder if you fully understood the regulation.

Interesting comment, but it makes me wonder if you fully understand the relationship between power, energy and efficiency.

[Top_gun]

Interesting comment, but it makes me wonder if you fully understand the relationship between power, energy and efficiency.

It's pretty much irrelevant since you can design a vacuum cleaner with a lower powered motor that has the same suction power as that of a higher powered vacuum cleaner. Suction power counts more for cleaning than the size of the motor in a vacuum cleaner.

What other progressive measures are there?

See post #35

[Agent]

Take a big clean carpet. Sprinkle a kilo of ash evenly over it. You have 10p in the electricity meter. How much of the 1kg can you get back before the money runs out?

Carpets would just become the next printers with tests like that. Replace them cheaply, replace them often.

It's one of the reasons I went with laminate entirely downstairs. Very easy to clean, durable, and if I ever do need to replace it all, I can do it in a couple of days. I just wish it was a bit warmer on my feet come winter

[peterb]

It's pretty much irrelevant since you can design a vacuum cleaner with a lower powered motor that has the same suction power as that of a higher powered vacuum cleaner. Suction power counts more for cleaning than the size of the motor in a vacuum cleaner.

Yes you can, but it isn't just suction power, its volume of air. I can create a very high suction with a low power motor by restricting the nozzle size. So in a vacuum cleaner, that will almost certainly mean reducing the size of the cleaning head. Basic fluid dynamics.

So in practice, a surface of a given width may take more passes to clean it because the width of the cleaner head is smaller - so it takes longer, and therefore the energy consumption increases.

Lower power does not necessarily mean lower energy consumption.

[ik9000]

It's pretty much irrelevant since you can design a vacuum cleaner with a lower powered motor that has the same suction power as that of a higher powered vacuum cleaner. Suction power counts more for cleaning than the size of the motor in a vacuum cleaner.

You hope. And that is a BS statement if ever I heard it. You can make a car go from a to b with a 1.0 90 cc two stroke from a moped, but don't expect it to perform like a BMW v6 or to get you there as fast, and certainly not for as good fuel economy.

Generalised statements and wishful thinking are the love of media who can't be arsed or aren't able to grasp the finer details of technical and scientific detail. I see it all the time in reporting on my industry. They clutch and half truths and misconception, peddle it as "truth" and the general public lap it up without question. And then the public spout the lie and refuse to listen to anyone else who might actually know what they're on about.

Go and get an engineering degree then come back and tell me how you think that statement is true. Til then I politely agree to disagree with its broader implications, which in a number of cases will be demonstrably not correct.

[ik9000]

Yes you can, but it isn't just suction power, its volume of air. I can create a very high suction with a low power motor by restricting the nozzle size. So in a vacuum cleaner, that will almost certainly mean reducing the size of the cleaning head. Basic fluid dynamics.

So in practice, a surface of a given width may take more passes to clean it because the width of the cleaner head is smaller - so it takes longer, and therefore the energy consumption increases.

Lower power does not necessarily mean lower energy consumption.

well said. Your example is better than mine. Time to call it a night I feel.

[kompukare]

Saracen's cordless got me thinking about something which would be useful. A sensor on a vacuum to not be running all the time as most mains powered ones are used like Saracen described with the motor running at full tilt when people are moving furniture around or moving from room to room etc. Now, some of that idle running might be cooling the motor but mostly this is wasted energy. So an automatic sensor which turns off the motor when it sense an idle state for a couple of seconds (electric motors are so efficient that stopping and starting barely affects them).

Or even better, a sensor which can also sense the surface as vacuuming a tile or laminate floor can be done with a lot less power than a shaggy carpet.

I just wish it was a bit warmer on my feet come winter

A pity that in those houses which need it the most because the floor was barely insulated when they built them, the walls downstairs are almost guaranteed to be solid. Because if your downstairs ceilings are 2.4m or taller, it would make perfect sense when fitting laminate to use 100mm thick insulation boards and just move all the door frames up but on structural walls that would mean having to deal with lintels.

A highly efficient foam 100mm insulation board under a laminated floor should really make a difference though.

[Agent]

I put insulation in when I fitted it. It's not bad to be honest, it's just not as warm as carpet to the touch.

[ik9000]

I put insulation in when I fitted it. It's not bad to be honest, it's just not as warm as carpet to the touch.

sounds like you need some under floor heating. once rented a place that had it in the bathroom. Tiled floor but always lovely to walk on barefoot.