1600 W maximum on vacuum cleaners from from Sept!

[Top_gun]

My only assumption is that as a successful company Miele employ competent product marketing people and accountants.

Have you ever spoken to someone who is good at product marketing? That isn't anything to do with sales, and saying what they do is very simplistic is one hell of a mistake.

Miele was built on the foundation of quality. All of their products are designed to last 20 years. The founder of Miele was an engineer by profession. Not exactly a marketing or accountant person.

I hope I never ever speak to someone who does product marketing. I will never ever buy a product based on marketing. Never did for the past 30 years. I suppose a good marketing person is someone who is able to convince you to buy rubbish products. I guess in your case, a badly engineered product needs a good marketing person to sell them.

[TeePee]

If Scotland becomes independent, could they have higher wattage vacuum cleaners? Could you smuggle on across the border?

[Saracen]

Taking that, for a few seconds, as serious, then probably yes, and probably yes, respectively. But there's some big questions in there, believe it or not, the answers to which are .... disputed.

If, as appears to be the opinion of everyone except SNP leaders, Scotland leaving the UK means it is seceding from an EU member state, and thus will find itself outside the EU. It will then have to reapply to the EU and satisfy all the membership acquis which, initially, it will not do, because it will not have all the necessary institutions and regulations, for a start, because many of them are UK legislation and, no longer being part of the UK it would no longer fall under the jurisdiction of those UK laws.

Some would no doubt be trivial to introduce, simply taking existing UK laws, changing the name to Scotland, and putting them through it's own legislative process .... once it sorts out what that is. Others, like various regulatory bodies, won't be quite so easy or fast, but still doable.

But, nonetheless, after what will no doubt be quite a bit of kerfluffle and process, there's no reason (that I can think of) why Scotland couldn't qualify. But that doesn't mean membership will be fast, or indeed, even certain that it will happen at all if any member state, such as Spain, decided to block it because of concerns over their own separatist-leaning regions. Would they block it? Dunno. But it's possible.

In the meantime, if iScotland is outside the UK, it's not bound by UK laws introduced to comply with EU directives and not even bound by EU treaty to introduce such laws itself. So, yes, assuming it does find itself outside the EU, it could import high-power cleaners because there'd be nothing stopping it. And, regulating vacuum cleaner motor power probably wouldn't be terribly high up Salmond's priority list, given the absolute mountain of things needing doing.

So, smuggling across the border? Well, yes, but 'smuggling' it would have to be, since importation would be illegal still, in the UK.

How easy would that be? That's another disputed question.

Part of the EU treaties all members (and assuming, initially at least, that wouldn't include iScotland) have is to maintain border controls at any point in a member state's territory where borders exist with non-EU states, I.e. their portion of the EU's external border, which for as long as the UK was in the EU and iScotland wasn't would include the England/iScotland land border. One of the core aspects of the EU is, after all, a customs and trading union, and there are barriers against non-member states .... like iScotland.

So, the UK would be obliged, by EU treaty, to enforce that EU border with iScotland. What does that mean, in practice? Dunno. It seems to be an issue that's been studiously avoided by both sides.

And, even once Scotland gets in, assuming it does, there's still issues, like the UK having a historic Schengen agreement opt-out, but it's far from clear that Scotland be be allowed to keep that. Or indeed, ANY of the existing UK opt-outs.

Basically, until Scotland IS independent, many of the questions can't even be officially asked, as I understand it, because a nation state has to ask the EU, and until independence, Scotland isn't one. So, the EU won't formally even accept the questions, never mind answer them.

So, ironically, vacuum cleaners could be seen as a proxy question for one of the larger great unknowns in all this, if Scotland votes for out, which is exactly what it's status re: the EU will be, and how long it will take to resolve.

[Saracen]

And that'll teach you to ask.

[TheAnimus]

The dystopian future where England has become a loan state in the EU area, bound by crazy Brussels regulation, the English house wife becomes increasingly frustrated with the length of time it takes for them to clean their house.

In desperation they turn to the black market, a bunch of people running high power vacuum cleaners across the border from Scotland, they arrange their deals with the money guys, the 'Heads' as they are known, later that day a pack mule or 'Sucker' runs the perilous mine field to deliver a high wattage vacuum cleaner.

[TeePee]

So, ironically, vacuum cleaners could be seen as a proxy question for one of the larger great unknowns in all this, if Scotland votes for out, which is exactly what it's status re: the EU will be, and how long it will take to resolve.

I should probably have asked this in the Scotland thread, as this is, of course, the real question!

[philipmathews]

You would hope vacuum cleaners will now get more efficient so since the Dyson came along have we had any kind of revolution. (Although light bulbs took a while, it's only now LED bulbs are filtering back into the mainstream)

[DanceswithUnix]

Miele was built on the foundation of quality. All of their products are designed to last 20 years. The founder of Miele was an engineer by profession. Not exactly a marketing or accountant person.

I hope I never ever speak to someone who does product marketing. I will never ever buy a product based on marketing. Never did for the past 30 years. I suppose a good marketing person is someone who is able to convince you to buy rubbish products. I guess in your case, a badly engineered product needs a good marketing person to sell them.

I try and see the best in people and believe they are genuine, but I can't believe anyone can be that stupid so now you have convinced me that you are just trolling. Bye.

[DanceswithUnix]

If Scotland becomes independent, could they have higher wattage vacuum cleaners? Could you smuggle on across the border?

France have a reputation for ignoring European directives they don't like, perhaps we could buy them from over there

[Top_gun]

I try and see the best in people and believe they are genuine, but I can't believe anyone can be that stupid so now you have convinced me that you are just trolling. Bye.

Just insulting people is a sign that you're running out of ideas. Shame to see you go as I feel I have lots of things to say about your other other weak points too. But I will continue to say them nevertheless.

As far as I'm concern marketing serves no useful purpose. Here's a youtube video on marketing. There is some swearing involved in this video as typical in most stand-up comedian on stage.

I've always been a brilliant shopper. I eat well, dress well, listen to great music, and buy high quality products. All done without being a marketing victim. Am I really stupid?

Bye bye, DwU.

[Saracen]

I try and see the best in people and believe they are genuine, but I can't believe anyone can be that stupid so now you have convinced me that you are just trolling. Bye.

Top_gun is right, we don't do insults on HEXUS. Any more of that, and I see a posting holiday in your immediate future.

[Apex]

ebay 2400 watt hoover job done

[ik9000]

Saracen, please don't call it "iScotland". Some dim wit will think it's an apple product branding and might vote accordingly!

[DanceswithUnix]

Top_gun is right, we don't do insults on HEXUS. Any more of that, and I see a posting holiday in your immediate future.

Apologies Saracen. I shouldn't let a post get to me, so let's have one more try, this one should be OK.

To say Miele don't use marketing people? Their UK boss is called Dominic, quite easy to find on Linked In, and my guess is that he really knows his stuff. At least I think Dominic was the boss, you get so many hits it wasn't crystal clear. But product management, product marketing, all the hallmarks of a normal successful company are there. These are essential tools of staying in business, and while you might try and ignore them in your purchasing decisions, they are not ignoring you, so through them people like you shape the products of the future. That doesn't make you a victim of marketing, it makes you part of a working product cycle with them as a part as well.

Miele was started by an engineer? According to Wikipedia Carl Miele was a bricklayer who specialised in industrial chimneys, perhaps that is what has been morphed into "Industrial Engineer". His partner was a travelling salesman, so I would say he was exactly a marketing type person. Does that matter? Not one bit, it was over 100 years ago so I would happily buy one of their products but based on what they are like now not then.

Then there is the assertion that feature removal and cost reduction are the same as a badly engineered product, when all they do is change the target market and in no way influence the quality of engineering that goes into it. Making an expensive product is easy.

Listening to great music is a particularly odd reference. I hope you go to concerts, and buy the T-shirt when you get there, because that is how artists make a living these days. The CD/download is an advert you are paying for.

I am glad TG that you are pleased with your purchases. I am an engineer, with an engineering degree, member of an engineering institute, you almost certainly handle my products on a weekly basis, a lot of the money you spend will go merrily through lines of code that I wrote, and I am proud of the level of engineering that went into and the reliability of all the things I have ever helped be created over the years. But I am finding this part of the thread frustrating, life is too short for further explanations, and I am done here.

[Saracen]

Saracen, please don't call it "iScotland". Some dim wit will think it's an apple product branding and might vote accordingly!

Perhaps, but does that mean they vote for, or against?

I remember buying a Creative Labs MP3 player for three main reasons. First, I though it sounded better. Second, it was better value. Third, it wasn't Apple.

[Saracen]

Apologies Saracen. I shouldn't let a post get to me, so let's have one more try, .....

Fair enough. But it's not really me due the apology, 'cos I wasn't the one called stupid. Not this7s time, anyway.

Come on, spit it out, in the HEXUS spirit.