Boris is Boss

[Saracen999]

Just make sure the label includes really clear information about the origin and wash method and let the consumer decide. We need much better transparency for food origin anyway, not just in the case of chickens. Growth hormones, anti-biotics etc. should all be listed. It'd be great if there was some kind of environmental rating too that captured CO2, water usage etc. to get it to the point of purchase.

Absolutely.


My only concern, personally, is information-overload on labels. With some products, I already feel I need to carry a microscope around with me to read them. Then again, my eyes ain't what they were. Nor for that matter is the rest of me. Getting old. Oh, joy.

But seriously, I agree.

I choose to buy premium meats, botb from high-quality local butchers that I trust, and in several cases, direct from the farm. I know I pay a premium for that but to me, it's worth it. It helps that I can afford to be picky .... largely because I don't fork out £30, £50 or more, monthly, on a mobile phone bill. Sorry, had to sneak that in.

But there is a serious point in that. What economists call 'opportunity cost'. The idea, for anyone unfamiliar, is that if you have £50 to spend, it only spends once. Buy a car, you maybe can't afford a holiday. But a holiday, the price mag be not using that money for a new camera. Eat out once a week (say, £30), and that £30 could have paid the quality premium on butcher and farm meats for a week or more so unless you can afford both, the price of doing one is not doing the other.

And that is and should be a choice for all of us .... exceot the very poor. But even then, the option is to have premium meats but less of it, anc "bulk up" with other ingredients, requiring perhaps a little more kitchen skills.

I know I'm talking ttaskmaster's language when I point out that cheap cuts (from a quality source) can actually taste fantastic provided they're cooked properly, often, slowly.

So yeah, label and let people choose. Personally, I don't plan on changing tactics whether chlorinated chicken comss in or not.

[SeriousSam]

Just make sure the label includes really clear information about the origin and wash method and let the consumer decide. We need much better transparency for food origin anyway, not just in the case of chickens. Growth hormones, anti-biotics etc. should all be listed. It'd be great if there was some kind of environmental rating too that captured CO2, water usage etc. to get it to the point of purchase.

Unfortunately there is no real way to create a meaningful environmental rating for food. To say it is horrifically complicated attributing value to all the positives / negatives is an understatement. Take water usage... in some cases its actually a good thing and in others its really bad. That's not to say we should give up on improving the environmental impact of food, as there is plenty that can be done. Not growing one of the highest water usage crops in a chronically dry region for example (almonds in California)...

However, cutting food waste would have more impact by several orders of magnitude.

p.s. Grass fed red meat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chickens etc.

[kalniel]

Absolutely.


My only concern, personally, is information-overload on labels. With some products, I already feel I need to carry a microscope around with me to read them. Then again, my eyes ain't what they were. Nor for that matter is the rest of me. Getting old. Oh, joy.

It can be done in a clear and sensible fashion I'm sure. When I buy a car tire... sorry, tyre.. in the EU it comes with a simple and universal rating label for wet performance (A-F), fuel economy (A-F) and noise. We could have* a welfare rating, environmental rating and origin/wash method if it was of concern. Yes, I'd pay more for AA chicken, if it exists - in fact it might draw attention to the fact welfare and environmental impact are often in contradiction so some people might learn more about what they're asking for.

*just an example. Cleverer UX people than me would come up with something more workable I'm sure.

[Top_gun]

It can be done in a clear and sensible fashion I'm sure. When I buy a car tire... sorry, tyre.. in the EU it comes with a simple and universal rating label for wet performance (A-F), fuel economy (A-F) and noise. We could have* a welfare rating, environmental rating and origin/wash method if it was of concern. Yes, I'd pay more for AA chicken, if it exists - in fact it might draw attention to the fact welfare and environmental impact are often in contradiction so some people might learn more about what they're asking for.

*just an example. Cleverer UX people than me would come up with something more workable I'm sure.

Food labelling is a mess in this country. The Tory government has fudged the issue leaving the food producers to devise their own misleading/confusing schemes to safeguard profits. Profits before people is the Tory mantra.

Which? calls on government to fix food labelling 'chaos'

[Saracen999]

....

However, cutting food waste would have more impact by several orders of magnitude.

....

Agreed, and while organising that top-down has numerous problems, there are things that all of us can do, individually. It just requires a little thought.

I'm no expert, but a few things have come to mind over the years from sheep experience.

For instance, use your freezer (assuming you have one, which a high proportion of households do) properly. That means not just stuffing it full of shop-bought frozen meals.

First, manage it. Label and date stuff, and make sure it doesn't get shoved to the back where you find it several years later.

Second, buy in bulk, design your own portion sizes. One reason I buy from farms and butchers is to buy the amount we need, not the portion sizes the supermarket want to sell us. For instance, there are several meals I do that need 300-350g of beef mince, or chicken pieces, to get the size of meal, with the balance of veg, that we want. So I might buy 2.1kg of beef mince, then portion it down to 7 portions of 300g, rather than buy preset 400g or 450g from the supermarket.

Also, freeze what you don't use. Sometimes I want half or a third of an onion, or half a garlic clove, or 1.5 carrots. So, I round up, prep the lot, then freeze what I don't need right now. Wrapped in clingfilm, then stored in a cliplock pot.

With the same logic, many meals lend themselves to bulk cooking, like, oh, bolognaise sauce. Make 3x, use 1x, freeze 2x.

Cheese. I like various types of cheese for varioys things but if you're not careful, you can end uo with it going off. So, before it gets that far, grate it and freeze it. Store it as above. Then, not only do you never through moldy cheese away again, but you vhave an instant supply ofcready-to-use grated cheeses. Makes great tiasted sarnies, pizza toppings, etc

Oh, and most cheeses tend not to like most plastics. Makes 'em sweat, and go off faster. But the plastics cheese often comes in is an exception. So, use that, but then bag that inside a freezer bag in the fridge and keep as much air out as you can.

Veges. If you don't use them when fresh, consider soups. They're mostly dead easy to make, don't take long and taste great.


This is only a taster, but following these kinds of methods cuts food waste hugely.

Oh, and obviously, try not to cook more tgan you need. And peelings can get composted and used to grow yoor own. Even with small spaces you can grow potatoes, etc, and with a bit more, onions, garlic, carrots, whatever you use. Snd things like herbs and chillies can be done on a windowsill.

All told, you can cut food waste eat better and fresher and save money, all at the same time. It just takes a little planning, and some effort, but once you get into the habit, it's actually no harder, and maybe a tad easuer, than not bothering and generating much more food waste.

Not much gets wasted here.

[TeePee]

Here's great trick for fresh herbs, if you don't grow your own:

When you have some leftover, chop, mix with olive oil (Or a neutral oil, depending on herb) and freeze in an ice cube tray.

[Saracen999]

Yup, TeePee. I do that. Works well, for instance, with basil. Some things I do the same but freeze in water. For ibstance, mint. The reason is that if I want inty new potatoes, or minty peas, minty mushy peas, etc, I don't want the oil.

But you remind me of another little trick.

Much of the time,, I make my own spice mixes. That way, I can batch-make fir soecufic jobs. Nadiya Hussein showed this on her recent TV series but I've done it for years.

Coming from that is curry paste. I do make my own, but I'll often buy Patak's madas paste. I suspect any Induan food purists are recoiling in horror, but y'know, sometimes it's just convenient.

Anyway, I only use 1-2 tablespoons per curry meal for two, and after you've had the pot of paste in the fridge for a few weeks, it starts to dry out and lose it's kick. Do ..... after use, shove all the paste in the jar down to a level, then add a little oil on top. I prefer veg oil, sunflower oil etc for this as I find olive oil just ..... wrong, somehow, fir this.

So, cover with a little oil until all paste is covered. Keep the air away from the paste with this oil seal and the jar lasts months (unless you use it all, obv.) and loses little or nothing of the taste or head.

One more.

Vanilla pods. After slicing and exracting the seeds for, whatever, stick the empty pods in a jar, cover with sugar and a week or two later, voika, vanlla sugar.


Anyway, I seem to have gone a bit off-topic and we're no longer discussing .... the B-word.

What a shame. How'd that happen.

[Corky34]

We rinse salads here in the UK with a cleaning agent too, and I can taste it occassionally and its horrible

I always thought that was just the salad.

On a more serious note the chlorine washed chicken thing, there's also growing evidence that doing so increases the chances of what i guess you could call super bacteria, basically the chlorine wash doesn't kill all the bacteria but in some cases causes mutations that either make it harder to pickup on typical bacteriological test or make it more dangerous, basically it can cause the nastiest on the chicken to evolve.

It's why it's not really something a simple label so people can choose thing will solve, the chlorine wash along with the super bacteria inevitable finds its way into the supply chain (the chlorine and water has to be disposed of somewhere).

Anyway, I seem to have gone a bit off-topic and we're no longer discussing .... the B-word.

What a shame. How'd that happen.

I'm sure the mods will be along soon to tell us how we should get back OT...(i beg you please don't).

[Saracen999]

....

I'm sure the mods will be along soon to tell us how we should get back OT...(i beg you please don't).

Well, obviously I no longer have a voice in that, but I do have a feel for collective mod thinking. On a new, fresh thread with tender roots, probably, yes. On an established strong shrub like this thread, I think it can cope with a bit of meandering, especially constructive meandering. Just my 2p.

Besides, given B-word and what's going on, it won't be long before some actual-world event drags it right back on-topic and our warm, little meandering is done.

FAO Mods : Maybe this little " Reduce food waste" bit could be copied into a thread of it's own in Food, etc..??

[Corky34]

... it won't be long before some actual-world event drags it right back on-topic and our warm, little meandering is done.

I've found not living in the actual-world has brought about a nice sense of tranquility, the drugs help, that and copious amounts of booze.

[Saracen999]

I've found not living in the actual-world has brought about a nice sense of tranquility, the drugs help, that and copious amounts of booze.

LOL. Good point.

In this house, the mute button on the TV remote has never been so popular. Best button of all. Followed closely by "Off".

Ahhhh, peace. Silence.

I have a growing appreciation of what a song from my youth was about ...... "Silence is Golden".

[Top_gun]

Looks like Boris has lost his majority in parliament today. Interesting to see what his thuggery government will do next.

[SeriousSam]

It can be done in a clear and sensible fashion I'm sure. When I buy a car tire... sorry, tyre.. in the EU it comes with a simple and universal rating label for wet performance (A-F), fuel economy (A-F) and noise. We could have* a welfare rating, environmental rating and origin/wash method if it was of concern. Yes, I'd pay more for AA chicken, if it exists - in fact it might draw attention to the fact welfare and environmental impact are often in contradiction so some people might learn more about what they're asking for.

*just an example. Cleverer UX people than me would come up with something more workable I'm sure.

I had dinner at the weekend with the former chief scientist of Unilever Agribusiness / Sustainable agriculture... his response (in regards to environmental rating) was one of mirth

[TeePee]

Looks like Boris has lost his majority in parliament today. Interesting to see what his thuggery government will do next.

It looks like the traitors are going all out to empower the EU. Hopefully if BoJo loses this can all be stopped by the Lords. Sabotaging your country's ability to negotiate out of nothing but spite isn't going to go well if a General Election is coming.

[kalniel]

I had dinner at the weekend with the former chief scientist of Unilever Agribusiness / Sustainable agriculture... his response (in regards to environmental rating) was one of mirth

Did he give any indication why? The methodology is fairly well established and peer reviewed (Science journal June 2018 had an example if I remember rightly). Was it more that industry would complain if they had to publish it?

[Top_gun]

It looks like the traitors are going all out to empower the EU. Hopefully if BoJo loses this can all be stopped by the Lords. Sabotaging your country's ability to negotiate out of nothing but spite isn't going to go well if a General Election is coming.

Using term traitors is a ridiculous statement in the context that many MPs have a desire to scrutinise the serious issues in parliament. Boris Johnson is playing Russian roulette with the UK's future. He has no credible negotiating plan. No plan A. Everyone knows that. Now the Tories have no majority in parliament thanks to Boris botched attempt to undermine democracy.