Right - time to get out your crystal balls

[midzt]

Top up fees are gonna go up me reckons, to prob around 8 grand. O wait, it technically not a top up fee. hmmmm, then why call it that? Intresting. Anyway, its gonna suck being a student paying off the debt, but hopefully it would be worth it.

I'm not saying students should get free education, but it really shouldn't be so much that after going to uni, your disposable income would be virtually zero.

[windog]

I can see there being another war between between the UN and America against North Korea if they dont start letting people in to look at there new weapons program.

But why would North Korea go to war if the Americans wont give them a look at thier weapons program?

[Stoo]

Prescott has got a degree I'd have thought that the only way he could get one was if it was honourary

He came first in a pie-eating contest?

[Nick F]

your forgetting his talent at sitting in the back of a Jaguar I see a new degree on the horizon

[Rave]

So Doctors and Vets that end up with well paid jobs, but rack up an obscene debt getting there and provide a public service should pay more in tax.

Poppycock I say In fact, what about engineers and scientists that go on to do work that benefits society - should they pay more tax; NO.

No, you misunderstand....I'm proposing scrapping tuition fees and funding universities through a graduate tax- a tax that would be levied on any higher rate taxpayer of working age who has a degree from a U.K. university. Trouble is, an inequitable system has now been created where the older you are, the less you paid for your degree, and sorting that out fairly would be an almighty task.

But I am with you on namby pamby arts students etc. that go on to work in media or become journalists. They should pay loads more tax

Though I'm kind of loathe to say it, I'm must admit that there are a fair number of degrees out there with no real justification for their existence. Someone from my year at school genuinely did do Golf Studies, for example. However, I also think that there is some merit in academic study for its own sake, so I would be loathe to scrap History and English degrees entirely. At the end of the day, those that get an English degree at Cambridge and then walk into a job at a bank or in PR or whatever would be hit by the graduate tax anyway. You'll always get a few wasters, but it'd still be a fairer system than the one we have today.

Prescott has got a degree I'd have thought that the only way he could get one was if it was honourary

He has. Surprisingly, the guy does have a solid history of good work for the unions and the Labour party, hence his popularity amongst 'old-Labourites' to this day. It's just a shame they can't see what a monster he's become, and what a traitor to his ideals.

[5lab]

some points :

interest rate isnt frozen on student loans, it rises and falls in line with inflation, but a bit slower (ie it takes longer to adjust)

its not possible to pay much back if you're on 19k, you owe a LOT and you only pay the minimum thru your pay packet, however i'm on £16k at the moment, and i payed off all of mine (only £4k) in the last 10 months. i live in brighton, which is not cheap by a long way. its easy to do if you skimp a tiny bit

a student loan is not much different from graduate tax, its just a different way of thinking about it. the more you earn, the more you pay, and it comes straight out of your pay packet..

you cnat walk into a 30k job with *any* degree around today. those are headline figures put out by the very best companies. i graduated 2 years ago, and i'd say that right now, of all the people i know from uni (who all did computer science at cardiff, a well respected uni), the average wage is sub 20k, which is well under the national average (28k, according to the pru).

some degrees are a bit faffy these days.. so what? students pay for these degrees in the long run - if they want to endebten themselves with an art degree then i'm sure that in the long run they think it is worth it. if nothing else university teaches life skills better than any other way imo..

i'll have more later on..

[Stewart]

Amanda went to uni, and she's now a 30k a year, high flyer with IBM.

Fair play to the girl. She never moaned, got on with it, and is now minted.

Just please, students - if you make the choice to be a student, with all the positives and negatives, don't moan about it. You can, as I said, always get a job on the bins, if all that studying, debt and fantastic education and career chances gets boring...

[Knoxville]

Just to point out not everyone walks out of uni into a 30k a year job and stays there for the rest of their days, if people did that then why would students moan about the loans and such?

[5lab]

Amanda went to uni, and she's now a 30k a year, high flyer with IBM.

Fair play to the girl. She never moaned, got on with it, and is now minted.

Just please, students - if you make the choice to be a student, with all the positives and negatives, don't moan about it. You can, as I said, always get a job on the bins, if all that studying, debt and fantastic education and career chances gets boring...

dunno who amanda is but if she got that pay straight away (ie straight out of uni) then she did very well. i'd say that 5 years out of uni that sort of thing can maybe be expected if you are good at what you do (but then, if you're good at what you do you'd probably end up on that, uni or none).

very few companies pay that sort of wage straight off. accenture is one of them, but its hard to get into and ya have to work very hard..

in all fairness, i know very few students who were genuinely poorly off. i worked (at sainsburies) threwout my time at uni and was pulling in the region of £400 per month whilst at uni, and £800 per month whilst in the holidays.. thats £6400ish per year, which is plenty to pay tuition, rent and so on. all of which i did. i see no reason why other students, save for medics who have obsurd hours and very short holidays, cant be the same.

[Allen]

i see no reason why other students, save for medics who have obsurd hours and very short holidays, cant be the same.

Because they normally spend it all on alcohol, drugs and other non-essentials...

[directhex]

Because they normally spend it all on alcohol, drugs and other non-essentials...

what a stupid, ill-informed reply.

care to back it up?

[Grey M@a]

I don't know why people are moaning about the loans anyway, if you walk out of uni on a job that pays less that £15000 you pay nowt, above 15k - 19k you pay £42 a month back to the SLC and you are not going to miss £42 and in the long run its paying it back, the higher up the scale you go the more you pay but I think the most they will take off you a month is £120 for the high wages.

I never got the whole moaning thing at all. I went to uni, got the loans to help me through, got on with it, did 4 years in computing getting my HND and BSc. Instead of moaning see it as a leg up, you want to be educated, you pay for it, I didn't have a problem with it, I am more than happy to keep calling the SLC to make extra donations towards my loan.

My education helped land a job straight out of uni, the money aint brilliant but its better than the dole, so why complain. As its been said, we aren't lazy we have to work etc etc. Yup we all worked through Uni to get a few bob in your pocket, but granted, the course I was on, 3/4 of them were lazy as owt, so lazy they couldn't make a 5pm lecture or an afternoon exam as they were "tired" and spending hours doing work. So how did the rest of us make it, we worked, studied, made the exams and dissertations!

Knox: The ones I know moan as they say the course is to hard, how its such a hardship they can't afford travel to Uni so they have to walk from Jesmond (5 minutes walk from here) The loans aren't enough for course materials (Now how do you spend 3k on course materials)

The amount of students I see around this campus who are swanning around with £120 gucci handbags and £80 levis jeans, mobile phones that do everything. These lot have better gear than I do and I am working. So when Vaul stated about students wasting their loans on crap, believe it in the majority of cases. Beer, cigs, gigs, nights out, clothes, designer labels, holidays. This is a list of what I have heard students say they have spent their money on. Notice how there is no mention of travel, books, possibly a cheap computer to type their work out, putting money aside to pay the bills. People laugh and say they don't do it, but have a look around your campus, how many students have these items that were bought on the loans How many students with cars. I had to wait till I was working and earning a wage before I could even look at a car.

The problem is in most cases, and a mate or two of mine did this with the student loans (including my brother) They see it as free money and forget about the fact they need to pay it back and they spend it on everything and anything that isn't essential.

[Allen]

what a stupid, ill-informed reply.

care to back it up?

Sorry if you thought it was stupid and ill-informed. My eyes must had lied to me for years of my life...

I used to live with 2 students near Royal Holloway, I used to spend a lot of time with their friends in the halls, I used to hang around with them all at student bars as well. Every time I saw them, the 2 students I lived with included, they were either drinking alcohol or smoking pot, or doing both. Then you have the students at the University my Dad works at in Uxbridge, all wearing designer clothes with iPod's the latest mobile phones, cars, motorbikes, binge drinking, doing drugs... the list goes on.

Anyway, I said 'most' not 'all'. I know not every student wastes their money, or should I say our money, on alcohol, drugs and other non-essential items, but the vast majority I see do.

[Allen]

I never got the whole moaning thing at all. I went to uni, got the loans to help me through, got on with it, did 4 years in computing getting my HND and BSc. Instead of moaning see it as a leg up, you want to be educated, you pay for it, I didn't have a problem with it, I am more than happy to keep calling the SLC to make extra donations towards my loan.

That is so true. I'm looking into now futhering my career, or even changing it, by studying, and I'll have to either save up or borrow money to pay for it. If I have to pay for it, after ploughing loads of money already into the government, then why should Uni students get it free?

The amount of students I see around this campus who are swanning around with £120 gucci handbags and £80 levis jeans, mobile phones that do everything. These lot have better gear than I do and I am working. So when Vaul stated about students wasting their loans on crap, believe it in the majority of cases. Beer, cigs, gigs, nights out, clothes, designer labels, holidays. This is a list of what I have heard students say they have spent their money on. Notice how there is no mention of travel, books, possibly a cheap computer to type their work out, putting money aside to pay the bills. People laugh and say they don't do it, but have a look around your campus, how many students have these items that were bought on the loans How many students with cars. I had to wait till I was working and earning a wage before I could even look at a car.

That is exactly my point. I don't know what Uni directhex goes to, or has been to, but this is what I've seen with my own eyes, and through my Dad, as an outsider. I've never studied at a Uni but I've seen what goes on with students inside, or outside, them.

[shiato storm]

....oh. you said "get out your crystal balls". oops, sorry.
*sheepishly embarassed look*

[Grey M@a]

someone had to do it eh Shiato