Tax On Tax

[alexander]

Personally, I think that this country has served you well you owe it something.

It's always been around so there's no point complaining.


Being British is putting up with these things.

[khizman]

Personally I think the amount of rich-boys who claim back VAT by making purchases through their dad's company on things which obviously aren't company purchases are worse than the government who impose taxes on people.

</rant>

[alexander]

I think the governement sees it as "Income"

What else would they see it as?

[Rave]

Inheritance tax is immoral.

I understand that we have to pay taxes and I am not griping about the tax system overall but inheritance tax is discraceful. It should not matter how much money is left to an individual from a family member. That money is private money that has already been taxed, as said before. To tax it again simply beacuse the owner has died is a disgrace and it should be abolished.

The amount of stress and hassle caused to the berieved is huge.

Oh PUR-LEASE. Some people die in penury and leave their kids nothing. As TiG has already pointed out, inheritance tax is only paid on estates over £275,000, at 40%. So if you leave an estate of, say, £400,000, £350,000 of it survives after income tax.

Now are you trying to tell me that receiving a share of at least £275,000 is more stressful than receiving nothing when a relative dies? Do you realise how selfish you sound?

As it happens, my grandfather, my childless uncle, and both my divorced parents are (or will be by the time they die) worth more than £275,000, so at some point in my life I'll be paying some inheritance tax. I don't give a monkeys, because I did nothing to earn it.

Edit: this was previously discussed at great length here:

http://forums.hexus.net/showthread.php?t=40910

[mmh]

selfish would be if the money were going back into the british community, but the money doesnt go there, it goes straight into immigrants who then try and blow the **** out of our country and then we have to pay the price again for cleaning up this bull****.
i would be more than happy to pay inheritance tax, if i knew it was going to helping homeless, or social services or something good which helps BRITISH born citizens, rather than these people that come over from god knows where and sponge off the government... these people make dutty chavs seem like decent people.
(going a bit off the point of taxation) - if these immigrants were in so much trouble in thier own countries, why do they have to come to britain, when theres a bigger place to pass through on the way - France.
i'll tell u why, coz the french government can see straight through thier bullshít, and doesnt let them in, but our greedy as **** government with its tax on tax on tax, just welcomes them with loving arms. houses them and gives them more than enough benefit to get on thier feet and invite the rest of the family over.
ARGHHH!!!! makes me angry, how theres these people gettin into the country and getting given everything, and theres people on our streets, born and bed here and they cant get ****.!!!!!!!!

ITS WRONG!

</rant>

--edit by Admin--
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[specofdust]

Oh come on now, you can't blame all immigrants for what those four guys did. They weren't even recent immigrants, and probably had british accents, and british ways, for all intents and purposes some of them were british.

You seem to have a massive problem with immigrants in general. You also seem to be mistaking Immigrants with Asylum seekers.

I should let you know that the majority of Illegal Immigrants in this country come from Ireland and Austrailia. So if you want to take it out on someone, you know to shout at the auzzies.

Asylum is something that international(or european, cannae mind which) law requires us to give to people who are in danger in their homeland, it's something we should continue to give and do.

Anyway, to get back on topic, death tax is ******* sick if you ask me. I'm gonna talk my parents into opening a swiss bank account when my dad retires. I don't give a toss if I did nothing to earn it, but the simple fact is that my dad built himself up from nothing, and I'm not gonna see a government who already penalises him for earning more then £40,000 by shifting the tax from 20% to 40% at that mark steal even more of him just because he dies.

[Mike Fishcake]

selfish would be if the money were going back into the british community, but the money doesnt go there, it goes straight into immigrants who then try and blow the **** out of our country and then we have to pay the price again for cleaning up this bullshít.
i would be more than happy to pay inheritance tax, if i knew it was going to helping homeless, or social services or something good which helps BRITISH born citizens, rather than these people that come over from god knows where and sponge off the government... these people make dutty chavs seem like decent people.
(going a bit off the point of taxation) - if these immigrants were in so much trouble in thier own countries, why do they have to come to britain, when theres a bigger place to pass through on the way - France.
i'll tell u why, coz the french government can see straight through thier bullshít, and doesnt let them in, but our greedy as fúck government with its tax on tax on tax, just welcomes them with loving arms. houses them and gives them more than enough benefit to get on thier feet and invite the rest of the family over.
ARGHHH!!!! makes me angry, how theres these people gettin into the country and getting given everything, and theres people on our streets, born and bed here and they cant get shít.!!!!!!!!

ITS WRONG!

</rant>

You are Richard Littlejohn and I claim my £5.

Immigrants and Asylum seekers are not the same thing. And not all Asylum seekers try to blow the country up.

I'm obviously not going to change your mind, but what about all those years ago when the "British Empire" sailed around the world, settling in and invading all the other countries? What about when they sent prisoners over to Australia, who proceeded to take the land away from the aborigines? And in America, where they ripped of the Native Americans?

Saying that Immigrants/Asylum seekers get given everything is a total and complete fallacy. Insinuating that anyone that wants to come into this country is also completely wrong. You only ever hear about the bad things happening in the news. Sometimes people from other countries need our help, and most of them are increddibly grateful for it and will do whatever they can to pay back. Of course some people take the p*** and take advantage of it. That's *human* nature. Brits do it too you know!! And sometimes mistakes are made where needy native Brits get overlooked, but deporting families back to a country where they face certain death isn't exactly a nice thing to do is it? How would you feel in that situation?

Most people are happy to donate to Live 8, comic relief, and other international aid organisations. If they were so bothered, then why do these people not give the money they choose to donate to "British" charities?

You do have a one or two valid concerns, but unfortunately the way you make them, makes you appear like an uncaring vitriolic racist, and I'm sure that's not how you want to come across.

And before anyone starts, i'm not being "PC". I hate that phrase. It means nothing. Different people use the phrase "It's PC gone mad!!!!1" to discredit anything that's said by somebody that shows a little bit of compassion. As I've said before, the only two phrases I believe "PC" stands for are Police Constable and Personal Computer. And I'm neither of those two!

(on a stupid note; Maybe with a bit of hindsight, the British explorers should have taught all these people from poorer countries a language other than English, so they chose to stop there instead )

[Mike Fishcake]

I should let you know that the majority of Illegal Immigrants in this country come from Ireland and Austrailia. So if you want to take it out on someone, you know to shout at the auzzies.

but... but.... but... you can't do that!

They're... they're.... white and English speaking!

[schmunk]

selfish would be if the money were going back into the british community, but the money doesnt go there, it goes straight into immigrants who then try and blow the **** out of our country and then we have to pay the price again for cleaning up this bullshít.
i would be more than happy to pay inheritance tax, if i knew it was going to helping homeless, or social services or something good which helps BRITISH born citizens, rather than these people that come over from god knows where and sponge off the government... these people make dutty chavs seem like decent people.
(going a bit off the point of taxation) - if these immigrants were in so much trouble in thier own countries, why do they have to come to britain, when theres a bigger place to pass through on the way - France.
i'll tell u why, coz the french government can see straight through thier bullshít, and doesnt let them in, but our greedy as fúck government with its tax on tax on tax, just welcomes them with loving arms. houses them and gives them more than enough benefit to get on thier feet and invite the rest of the family over.
ARGHHH!!!! makes me angry, how theres these people gettin into the country and getting given everything, and theres people on our streets, born and bed here and they cant get shít.!!!!!!!!

ITS WRONG!

</rant>

You are such a gimp.

[Knoxville]

We don't. Most jurisdictions have some form of sales tax it's just that when you look at say US prices on line, they don't include the local sales taxes.

True but as Stoo says I think U.S sales taxes are lower than 17.5% (wasn't there some talk of raising it a while back aswell) I'm not gonna argue with you on the legalalities of it but from what I see as Joe Blogg's, we pay more for damn near everything.

and as for mmh's point, this money does pay for chav's but Immigrants? thats a grey area, while you may see asians going into the dole office and moonlighting in a taxi this doesn't mean their immigrants at all, it just means that they are lazy and know how to work the sytem to their advantage, and before anyone leaps on me screaming racist if I saw someone white doing the same thing it would piss me off rotten aswell because its my national insurance and tax thats paying for the 20 L&B they get from the corner shop every morning. Immigrants are a very easy target and because of this its become a huge issue to say anything bad about them (political correctness is another rant entirely but it applies) it doesn't annoy me that people come here from other countries so long as -

1. They make an effort to learn the language to a decent extent, and when I say decent I do not mean to the extent that we learn languages when we go on holiday for 2 weeks, please , thank you and where is the bathroom are just not good enough if you intend to live in a country no matter who you are.

They're... they're.... white and English speaking!

Damn right they are, and if I'm gonna have to work with an illegal immigrant i'd rather they could speak more than four words to me no matter what colour their skin is.

2.They work for a living, and I mean really work like everybody else, to get into some countries you have to already have a job planned/useful trade, in this country it is literally an open house for anyone, people come here with no job and no money and they have to sign on benifits because they can't find a job for whatever reason.

3. You do not treat me like a visitor in my own country, you don't tell me to change my way of life, you came to this country and you should accept with that its traditions and everything that comes with it. Winterfest my ass.

Anyone that wants to argue with me on those three points feel free because I think that they are perfectly justified and I will not back down on any of them. Oh and anyone that even attempts to call me racist is gonna get a slap in the face aswell because quite frankly I don't need to be insulted like that.

[Knoxville]

You are such a gimp.

How many people do you work with that have been given cheap housing and a job that can't speak one word of english? He raises a point, he just raises it badly.

[Mike Fishcake]

True but as Stoo says I think U.S sales taxes are lower than 17.5% (wasn't there some talk of raising it a while back aswell) I'm not gonna argue with you on the legalalities of it but from what I see as Joe Blogg's, we pay more for damn near everything.

and as for mmh's point, this money does pay for chav's but Immigrants? thats a grey area, while you may see asians going into the dole office and moonlighting in a taxi this doesn't mean their immigrants at all, it just means that they are lazy and know how to work the sytem to their advantage, and before anyone leaps on me screaming racist if I saw someone white doing the same thing it would piss me off rotten aswell because its my national insurance and tax thats paying for the 20 L&B they get from the corner shop every morning. Immigrants are a very easy target and because of this its become a huge issue to say anything bad about them (political correctness is another rant entirely but it applies) it doesn't annoy me that people come here from other countries so long as -

1. They make an effort to learn the language to a decent extent, and when I say decent I do not mean to the extent that we learn languages when we go on holiday for 2 weeks, please , thank you and where is the bathroom are just not good enough if you intend to live in a country no matter who you are.



Damn right they are, and if I'm gonna have to work with an illegal immigrant i'd rather they could speak more than four words to me no matter what colour their skin is.

2.They work for a living, and I mean really work like everybody else, to get into some countries you have to already have a job planned/useful trade, in this country it is literally an open house for anyone, people come here with no job and no money and they have to sign on benifits because they can't find a job for whatever reason.

3. You do not treat me like a visitor in my own country, you don't tell me to change my way of life, you came to this country and you should accept with that its traditions and everything that comes with it. Winterfest my ass.

Anyone that wants to argue with me on those three points feel free because I think that they are perfectly justified and I will not back down on any of them. Oh and anyone that even attempts to call me racist is gonna get a slap in the face aswell because quite frankly I don't need to be insulted like that.

I (think I) know that last bit's not aimed at me, but what I will say anyway is I don't think you or MMH are racist, it's a horrible thing to accuse people of without evidence to back it up. Also, I'm not backing down due a threat of a slap in the face, I mean that, because you make it clear that you're annoyed with "spongers" rather than people from another country/race.

Anyway, again - some valid points. The one about learning the English language: if you're planning to stay, that's not just politeness, but common sense really. I know if I had to stay in a country for a long time that I'd have to do that.

If you have to work with an *illegal* immigrant, well you shouldn't be doing because they're an illegal immigrant. Anyone that employs illegal immgrants is taking advantage of them for undoubtedly a sub-minimum wage for their own greedy financial gain.

"in this country it is literally an open house for anyone"

Not true. Facts from the BBC website:

The UK is now joint eighth on a European league table for arrivals - one new asylum seeker is arriving for every 1,000 of the population.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4287501.stm

Applications: 33,930
Accepted: 12%
Rejections: 88%
A fifth of rejections are overturned on appeal
Removals: 12,430
Total asylum seekers on benefits: 61,625
Note: Asylum seekers are banned from working

Still a lot, yeah, but not "anyone" by any stretch of the imagination. I'm willing to agree that the stats may not be completely 100% correct (no stats are), but I'm fairly positive that they're not completely wrong.

Also, I agree, visitors to a country shouldn't ask people to change their lives and their cultures, but just because there's an increase in non-native festivals doesn't mean that they are taking over the country.

In addition to what I've said, IMHO, the British flag isn't a symbol of racism any more. Anyone that accuses someone of wearing a british flag of being racist is clearly a deluded moron. If you want to wear/display it, then you've got the right to do it, and do it with pride. The British (or indeed English) flag should not just be waved by drunken fans at sports matches.

I think some people worry too much about what "might" happen, because like I've said before, you only ever hear about the trouble causers, not the ones that quietly and considerately get on with their lives.

TBH, this argument could go round and round in circles, because the problem is, there isn't a right and a wrong answer. There are points to both sides of the story. I have a horrible habit of sitting on the fence, and it makes people who sit firmly on one side think i'm opposing them, when all i'm doing is analysing the facts.

[Mike Fishcake]

A lot of people are worried that what they say on the subject might be misinterpreted, and that's a shame. A big political debate is a good thing, as long as no one makes rash assumptions and starts pointing the finger. I just want to make it clear that, unless specifically stated, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just countering the point made.

Now, things to do....

[schmunk]

How many people do you work with that have been given cheap housing and a job that can't speak one word of english?

Err, none. >90% of the people I work with have good degrees from good universities, as I are an professional, me.

BTW, illegal immigrants do not get council houses, benefits etc.. That's the whole point - they're outside the system!

Legal immigrants have been allowed into the country by our government, the same as if any of us wanted to go and live in a different country. It is most usual that they do not need benefits etc, as they enter the country with the skills and determination to work for a living.

The average person on benefits was born here!


p.s. mmh and Knoxville, neither of you have yet said anything I would consider racist, but you're definiately both in the 'Xenophobe' category.

[iranu]

Not gonna get into silly debate here.

I don't think it is selfish for me to inherit without taxation the posessions of my parents if that is what they have made clear in their wills. People work hard to afford their possesions whether that be a house, car, telly or shares or cash - it does not matter.

They work hard to provide for their children and it is only natural that they want security for their children. I think it is entirely reasonable for them to decide what they do with their possessions in the event of their death. After all they've paid for it out of their TAXED income.

Instead of saying I sound selfish, Rave should be asking - why does the government (of any colour) feel the need to tax twice? Doing nothing to earn it is neither here nor there. It's completely irrelevant.

[oralpain]

US sales tax ranges from about 5% to about 10%, and they are at the state level. No tax is paid from good bought out of state, and there are no consumer/individual level import fees or tariffs (thta I am aware of).

When buy something from newegg, I pay list price+shipping (wich may be free) and not a cent more. No tax, as I do not live in CA, or TN, or NJ, which is where the newegg wearhouses are (and hence where they ship from). If I buy something from within NY state I pay 8.25% sales tax.

There are a few exceptions. A few things are taxed significantly more than this. Ciggarrets are about 50% tax, pistol ammunition is heavily taxed in some places, and gasoline is taxed alot.

All in all, taxes aren't too bad in the US. Execept for schools and bullets, wich cost way too much. We also have many varities of double taxation though, which I am not fond of.

However the US has other seriously stupid problems besides taxes. Owning more than 6 dildos, for personal use in your own home, in Texas, is a class A misdormeanor. Theoretically, you could do a year in jail for it. It's up there with things like assult and identity theft. Anyway, this really has nothing to do with this discussion, back to taxes...

Governments tend to tax whatever they think they can get away with. If they can get away with it, well then, it's obviously good, just, and moral, casue they said so.

Personally I think ALL taxes should be optional. Don't pay, don't get the service. I wouldn't pay for road maintinance, casue I don't have a car, and my legs and feet work plenty well-enough off-road. I wouldn't pay for the crap welfare we have, casue the systme doens't work and they can just leave me where I fall for all I care. Relying on the state to save your life, just because they can, is a serious mistake in the US anyway. i also would nt pay for schools, because they are so wasteful that they would be better off making a pile of cash and burning it for heat. My 350 million dollar school did not have fucntional heat. When you are sitting a modern third of a billion dollar building freezing your ass off because your class is 5 degrees celcius, something is wrong.