The "Smoking ban"- will you be giving up?

[Rave]

are you really that immature? i mean, seriously? ok, so you think it's turning into a nanny state, whatever. But can you not see that it's for the health of non smokers that they're doing it? They arent really getting anything out of it, the less smokers there are, the less fags they sell, the less tax they get. They might make it up in booze, but i doubt it. For god's sake, grow up and think of someone else other than yourselves for once. jeezo.

Nobody ever has to work in a nightclub. You will never get your dole money taken away for refusing to take a job in a pub or club- if you did you could sue instantly and win very easily. The fact is, under current laws there's absolutely no compulsion to work in pub or club, so this law cannot be justified on the basis of promoting public health. It is nothing more than nanny state interventionism. Once I've kicked my habit once and for all, I almost certainly will go back to enjoying the odd one or two just to make a point.

[Knoxville]

we've just had the smoking ban introduced here, and it's made SO much difference to a pub/club experience! It's a bit strange at first, especially driving through town and there being groups of people standing outside every establishment puffing away, but after a while you realise you can breath clearly. It's great. AND you dont have to come home and have a shower/wash your hair/change out of your clothes.

I went out last night, went to the pub, had a few, then went on to the club round the corner. Usually after a night out my asthma plays up and i've got a chesty cough in the morning, but miraculously, today i dont. I can wear the same jeans i had on last night and i dont have to wash my hair cos the smell of it is making me feel ill.

I honestly dont have a problem with people smoking, but more the fact that i didnt have a choice as to whether i was to breathe your smoke or not. I keep hearling complaints about violation of freedom of choice or some crap like that, and all i can say is its complete twaddle. Basically, you CHOOSE to smoke, so you CHOOSE to stand outside. I CHOOSE not to smoke, so i CHOOSE to stay inside and i CHOOSE not to breathe your smoke. Simple.

A lot of my friends have used the ban as an excuse to quit, and i can see how they would find it slightly easier doing this, since when they're out having a drink, they arent tempted by seeing other people smoking or smelling someone elses cigarette. The fact that they have to get up and leave the pub/club in order to have a ciggy puts them off too. In fact, my friend last night only had 3 ciggies in the space of the whole night when she might have had most of a 10 pack before the ban. But i think you have to WANT to give up, the ban will only aid this.

Its people like you I don't mind enjoying a smoking ban or infact complaining about smokers, you have a genuine problem thats affected by the average saturday night out with smokers present.Ia've had a pretty nasty chest infection this past few weeks and my first night back down the pub was actually quite hard because I'd only been smoking 2/3 fags a day and my lungs still weren't 100% so I was struggling to control my breathing by the end of the night, its no fun and I sympathise.

I disagree with people that complain about a smell because lets face it, its a smell, you go out clubbing your prolly gonna come back sweaty and having had beer spilled on you in some way anyway so a shower and a change of clothes is probably not a bad idea anyway.

Your very right that I choose to smoke but I never chose to be ousted into the outdoors because of it. yes I understand that theres some places its not appropriate to smoke indoors but pubs and clubs were in my opinion a given, a place to go have fun. It's no longer a choice to go outside or not now, its manditory and I was never given any choice over that, which is what annoys me the most.

To truely give people choice over what they inhale would have been to do what was already coming into play anyway, big franchise pubs (wetherspoons, loyds bar etc.) were becoming pretty much a no smoking environment, theres a few exceptions but out of 6 wetherspoons I've been into recently 5 have been no smoking. Now thats fine, nice pubs, cheap drinks, smoke free. Why not leave the local pubs to decide wether they enforce a ban or not? Leaving somewhere for both non-smokers and smokers a place to sit down and enjoy a pint in they're chosen environment. no-ones gonna loose business as the populations split 70/30 anyway.

are you really that immature? i mean, seriously? ok, so you think it's turning into a nanny state, whatever. But can you not see that it's for the health of non smokers that they're doing it? They arent really getting anything out of it, the less smokers there are, the less fags they sell, the less tax they get. They might make it up in booze, but i doubt it. For god's sake, grow up and think of someone else other than yourselves for once. jeezo.

As I said above, leaving matters to run they're course would've resulted in many places for non-smokers to sit and enjoy a drink smoke free. As for the nanny state I think its heading that way personally, there was no need for a total ban. no-one is forced to work in a smokey environment such as a pub or club and smoking is banned in the workplace so provided theres no smokers in your home the health of non-smokers is left entirely in they're own hands. You mentioning the booze did bring something to mind though. The move to introduce 24 hour licenses was quite contraversial iirc, could this be a way of trying to get back some tax money? I know it sounds like some kinda conspiracy but the government never likes to loose cash anywhere tbh.


That was gonna be a small post

[Skii]

are you really that immature? i mean, seriously? ok, so you think it's turning into a nanny state, whatever. But can you not see that it's for the health of non smokers that they're doing it? They arent really getting anything out of it, the less smokers there are, the less fags they sell, the less tax they get. They might make it up in booze, but i doubt it. For god's sake, grow up and think of someone else other than yourselves for once. jeezo.

Wow. Someone can't detect sarcasm today. Go Girly....

[Elmo]

I was going to reply to this thread yesterday but i only read it just as i was aout to leave work, and now i cant be arsed going back through it.

Anyway, another point i'd like to put forward, and a positive i've heard from smokers in the past week re: the smoking ban here in scotland, is that when you go out for your fag (in the cold, wind and rain) you've automatically got something in common with all the other poeple out there, almost like a little members club. Some of the banter can be somewhat amusing too i gather, so it's not all bad.

With respect to knox's post above, I didnt say anyone was forcing people to work in bars, i said those of us who dont smoke that like to go to pubs, have no choice in whether we breathe your smoke in or not when in the bar. Ofcourse, we could just not bother going into bars, and therefore have no social life or friends, but then that'd be quite a lot of the population staying at home. With the ban in place, we can go out, to the bars and clubs we enjoy, but without the health risks (aside from liver disease, but then i hardly drink anymore anyway), still have a healthy social life (pardon the pun) and our smoking friends STILL GET TO SMOKE (omg shocker!) it just means they have to pop outside to do it for all of 5 mins, probably about the same amount of effort AS GOING TO THE TOILET. Some pubs are even putting up little shelters for their smokers so they dont get wet.

All the people saying the ban is a violation of freedom of choice is talking utter piss imo. It allows EVERYONE to make the choice as to whether they want to breath in smoke or not. Get a grip and move on.


incidentally, i was in a pub in kilmarnock last night, and i know they're a bit wierd there n everything, but i dont think they understand the word ban... most of the people went outside for a fag, but there were people going into the loos 2 and 3 at a time having fags. So i STILL came home smelling like a n ashtray GRR!

[Knoxville]

Thats true actually you didn't mention people working in pubs n clubs, not sure where I got that, possibly from raves post dunno I'd had a few beers tbh :

Anyway, another point i'd like to put forward, and a positive i've heard from smokers in the past week re: the smoking ban here in scotland, is that when you go out for your fag (in the cold, wind and rain) you've automatically got something in common with all the other poeple out there, almost like a little members club. Some of the banter can be somewhat amusing too i gather, so it's not all bad.

This is true, It was much the same outside college, at the pub last night I ended up stood outside for about 2 hours because of some rather hilarious drunk people. Its not horrible to have to go outside for 5 for a smoke, but I'd still like there to be somewhere I can sit enjoy a pint and a fag indoors in the winter which Is why I think it should have been handled differently to give both smokers and non-smokers a choice, as it stands shelter or not in the middle of the night in december a quick 5 minute nip outside for a fag break ain't much fun no matter who's out there.

All the people saying the ban is a violation of freedom of choice is talking utter piss imo. It allows EVERYONE to make the choice as to whether they want to breath in smoke or not. Get a grip and move on.

As I said in my last post people already had the choice to go to a smoking or no smoking pub, at least in my area and I'd imagine it was the same in many other large towns. the only place where they couldn't make a choice like that was clubs and in my experience at least theres easily as many smokers in the clubs I go to as non-smokers if not more, which would put non-smokers in the minority yet they still had a ban passed in they're that encompasses clubs.

What if it'd been handled differently, and non-smokers were the ones sent outside into the fresh air to drink while smokers reamined indoors, would you still be saying its not even a small violation of your freedom of choice?

Gotta wonder how this is gonna be enforced though, because as you said people are still smoking indoors (tbh though I'd rather smell stale cigarettes than the toilets in some pubs) and unless the landlord enforces the ban smoking may well continue in alot of smaller pubs.

[ACiD303]

Must suck the most if you're a smoker in Glasgow though . . . not only is it illegal to smoke inside, but it's also illegal to drink outside :/

[Elmo]

As I said in my last post people already had the choice to go to a smoking or no smoking pub, at least in my area and I'd imagine it was the same in many other large towns. the only place where they couldn't make a choice like that was clubs and in my experience at least theres easily as many smokers in the clubs I go to as non-smokers if not more, which would put non-smokers in the minority yet they still had a ban passed in they're that encompasses clubs.

my point was that people with friends that smoke would either have to take their smoking friends into a non smoking pub, where they'd have to smoke outside ANYWAY or go into a pub with smokers AND PASSIVE SMOKE (the whole point of the ban ). With the ban in place, this decision doesnt have to be made, smokers and non smokers can all go to the same pubs that they enjoy, with each other, and either smoke outside or stay inside where those who are non smokers dont have to breath the smoke in.

which brings me on to this really obtuse statment:

What if it'd been handled differently, and non-smokers were the ones sent outside into the fresh air to drink while smokers reamined indoors, would you still be saying its not even a small violation of your freedom of choice?

it's not about freedom of choice, it's about health knoxxy, and you know that, please dont start with the simply obtuse arguments, cos this really doesnt warrent a reply, it's that stupid. The fact is, smoking causes cancer. Fine, if you dont care, or are willing to take the chance that you wont get it, then that's your CHOICE, and no one is removing that from you, you're just being asked to do it in a fashion that doesnt cause other people that choose NOT to blacken their lungs, to take that same risk. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

Gotta wonder how this is gonna be enforced though, because as you said people are still smoking indoors (tbh though I'd rather smell stale cigarettes than the toilets in some pubs) and unless the landlord enforces the ban smoking may well continue in alot of smaller pubs.

Liscencees may have their liscences revoked if an environmental health inspector visits the pub (which they are quite likely to do) and sees evidence of smoking in pubs continuing. The liscencee will also be charged £250 for an instance where it's evident that people are still smoking in the pubs, and the people smoking in the pubs will be charged £50. It's up to the liscencees to police it, and the public to enforce it. Otherwise you're lovely local will be closed down.

[Knoxville]

my point was that people with friends that smoke would either have to take their smoking friends into a non smoking pub, where they'd have to smoke outside ANYWAY or go into a pub with smokers AND PASSIVE SMOKE (the whole point of the ban ). With the ban in place, this decision doesnt have to be made, smokers and non smokers can all go to the same pubs that they enjoy, with each other, and either smoke outside or stay inside where those who are non smokers dont have to breath the smoke in.

in that respect the ban works perfectly it does level the playing field and take that decision out of play. Just woulda been nice if a couple of places remained where I could enjoy a fag indoors, its selfish I know but I can't smoke indoors at home or at work and soon I won't be able to smoke in pubs and clubs either so in the winter I'm permanantly ousted into the great outdoors, I just don't relish the idea. If the ban had been partial I'd be going where my friends were going anyway, thats why I end up in a none smoking pub 90% of the time these days, woulda just been nice to be able to go out occaisionally with a couple of mates that smoke and have a pint indoors with like minded people, I wouldn't drag people along with me that didn't really wanna go and I'm sure they wouldn't come anyway

it's not about freedom of choice, it's about health knoxxy, and you know that, please dont start with the simply obtuse arguments, cos this really doesnt warrent a reply, it's that stupid. The fact is, smoking causes cancer. Fine, if you dont care, or are willing to take the chance that you wont get it, then that's your CHOICE, and no one is removing that from you, you're just being asked to do it in a fashion that doesnt cause other people that choose NOT to blacken their lungs, to take that same risk. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

Its not a difficult concept to grasp, I'm well aware smoking causes all manner of health issue's and I don't wanna be responsible for anyone else illness's that doesn't wanna take the same risks I do, maybe I'm explaining things in a way that make it appear as though I don't take the health side of things into account. I know no-ones taken away my right to smoke, they've just taken away my right to do it in any comfortable environment, just as if in my (albeit far fetched and strange statement) non-smokers were made to drink outdoors where smoke would not affect them, no-one would be taking away they're right to go out and enjoy a good smoke free night out, they'd just be taking away they're right to enjoy a good smoke free night out indoors.

Liscencees may have their liscences revoked if an environmental health inspector visits the pub (which they are quite likely to do) and sees evidence of smoking in pubs continuing. The liscencee will also be charged £250 for an instance where it's evident that people are still smoking in the pubs, and the people smoking in the pubs will be charged £50. It's up to the liscencees to police it, and the public to enforce it. Otherwise you're lovely local will be closed down.

to be fair I can't see many owners taking the chance, was just wondering as while I'd heard alot about the ban itself I'd heard very little on how it was to be enforced properly.

I know I come off as some kinda selfish ass hat when it comes down to this topic, I've probably annoyed alot of other members in one of the hundred other threads about stuff like this. But im someone that loves to smoke, not like many who complain about it and wanna quit but are too addicted, so when people start talking about how inconsiderate smokers are or how we need to stop moaning about whatever place they've banned us from now it really does annoy me and its one of the few things I'm this stubborn over (this and music) we've all got things we're militant about, its just that people keep discussing mine.

[shelley bda]

More rubbish on the streets, will smokers be considerate enough to take ashtrays outside with them when they smoke?

I dunno about anyone else but walking past a group of strangers, large/ small ( smoking or otherwise ) makes me feel intimidated,

People keep banging on about smokers but what about drunken louts spilling out of pubs and clubs, fuelled by alchohol looking for a fight, or drunken drivers who will do more damage to you than someone puffing fag smoke at you will ( i don't smoke btw but i don't think it's up to the government to ban smoking, it should be up to the landlord ) we can choose to leave a smoky pub if we wish, there are pubs by me that are non smoking pubs

Iv'e got a good idea! ban drinking and smoking outside of your own home then there'll be no pointless arguing about it!

[ACiD303]

More rubbish on the streets, will smokers be considerate enough to take ashtrays outside with them when they smoke?

Everywhere along where I live (and I live pretty central) they've accomodated for the fag butts and ends, and surprisingly smokers have obliged politely. . . I say that because in Scotland you will find smokers with a fag butt disposal unit or rubbish bin next to them and they'd still chuck it on the street. . . . I was first concerned about this, but I already see everyone's being responsible.

I dunno about anyone else but walking past a group of strangers, large/ small ( smoking or otherwise ) makes me feel intimidated,

No different to walking past any other group of people. Its still the neds which are more cause for concern around here. If you're going to be intimadated by people then thats going to the case, nevermind the smoking ban.

I, for one, think this ban (and if the point of it is to cause less passive smoking) has so far been pretty pointless. Around Edinburgh, I'd say the air is not bad (compared to Hong Kong) and has been pretty refreshing even where I stay and in the city centre. However, since the ban has come in, I find walking around my area much more unpleasant - this is because where I live the pubs are the earliest in the city to open (5am) and from then there will always be groups of people smoking outside. I find even walk up or down a block I will always be sniffing smoke (because there are 3 pubs to a street where I stay), which is not helped by the fact that pub owners dont seem to empty out their fag butt bins or disposal units (so far), and that to even get into a pub or anywhere really for that matter, you have to walk straight through an army of smokers.

Now I used to be a smoker, I have nothing against smokers and smoking (though by free choice Id rather not inhale it constantly), and I have no health issues such as Asthma - however, with over 1 week into the ban I do not see how this argument put forward of "reducing passive smoking" has been fortified. That is my gripe with this - the (hypocritical) government feeding the public some nonsense for support they are actually making a difference, when they really are just pitting one side of the public against another (borrowing a knife for murder so to speak). In Aberdeen, one pub has already been forced to close its doors as 95% of its clients were chain smokers when a pint was at hand (after just 1 week!) - an irish guy told me of a similar story in his hometown where his local was forced to shutdown after 6 months into the ban.

Personally, I don't think it'll happen round here, there's no sign of people preventing themselves from going out to smoke, and it reduces their smoking rate when drinking. I've been to New York when weather conditions have been far less favourable than here and smoking bans were in place - and you know what, as a smoker at the time - I preferred it, I met and talked to people, and I got a bit of (rather cold & freezing) fresh air at the same time, which may sound idiotic to non-smokers.

In the end so far, and on the grounds of what the Scottish Parliament have laid this law down on, I'd much rather see it in pubs and clubs. So much for being a laid back country when your fellow countrymen can't enjoy a simple luxuries in life under the same roof - if there was to be a ban, let it be under the discretion of the landlord so that people who want to smoke know where they can do it, and people who dont want to "passive smoke" know where they can enjoy that choice.

[shelley bda]

No different to walking past any other group of people. Its still the neds which are more cause for concern around here. If you're going to be intimadated by people then thats going to the case, nevermind the smoking ban.

That's what i meant, any large group of people i find intimidating, with smokers standing outside i can just see more groups hanging about

[vincent]

im a full time smoker- i have been for the past 4 years- even though i have been tryin to give up- but failing -but suceeding in a sense- each time i chose to quit- i extended the amount of time i didnt have a smoke for- the last time i tried giving up was in Jan- i lasted 1 week without a smoke....

the ban wont effect me in any way due to the fact that i hardly go out

Tbh though-a smokin ban in public places aint gonna affect a addiction- cos lets be honest here-the majority of full time smokers cant just choose which days not to smoke and which days they would like to smoke or the know how upon where to smoke-except for work obviously
also there are smoekrs that can stop smoking for a full weeks, and months and then have a few ciggies here n there- then quit again...

before we know it -they'll be marked squares in town centres everywhere were smokers will have 2 go LOL

[Elmo]

right, i was thinking about the amount of mess outside pubs too, but every pub has sponsored ashtrays either stuck to the walls of the pubs or on bins outside them. So far as i've seen, most smokers make use of these and i actually havent seen any more fag butts on the gound that you usually would walking down the street.

As for walking past "large groups of people", generally the size of the smoking groups is quite small, maybe 5 or 6 people, and they arent intimidating, they're there to enjoy themselves just like you, it's almost as if the pub has been extended 6ft out the way, if you're going to walk through a busy pub then walking past a couple of smokers having a chat isnt going to bother you much.

People keep banging on about smokers but what about drunken louts spilling out of pubs and clubs, fuelled by alchohol looking for a fight, or drunken drivers who will do more damage to you than someone puffing fag smoke at you will ( i don't smoke btw but i don't think it's up to the government to ban smoking, it should be up to the landlord ) we can choose to leave a smoky pub if we wish, there are pubs by me that are non smoking pubs

i dont understand this statement at all.... i have been to many many pubs and clubs, and i've only been vaguely involved in a brawl (if you can even call it that), whereas i have been breathing in thousands of other people's smoke and could, potentially, get cancer as a result. In fact, one of the DJs in the club i frequent has recently been diagnosed with lung cancer, and he's never smoked a ciggy in his life. How is a drunken brawl going to cause more damage than a long horrible illness that could possibly lead to death?

as for leaving a smokey pub if we wish, yes we could, but our friends smoke and we want to stay in the pub with them, is it a case of choosing our friends or our health? that's just stupid.

[shelley bda]

i dont understand this statement at all.... i have been to many many pubs and clubs, and i've only been vaguely involved in a brawl (if you can even call it that), whereas i have been breathing in thousands of other people's smoke and could, potentially, get cancer as a result. In fact, one of the DJs in the club i frequent has recently been diagnosed with lung cancer, and he's never smoked a ciggy in his life.

Aren't you lucky to live in such a peaceful place, other places in the country however arent, as for the DJ, he chose that career he had a choice as to whether or not he wanted to work in a smoky pub or club

[Elmo]

Aren't you lucky to live in such a peaceful place, other places in the country however arent, as for the DJ, he chose that career he had a choice as to whether or not he wanted to work in a smoky pub or club

i live in the middle of glasgow, love, it's hardly peaceful, but i wouldnt say that pub brawls cause more harm than ciggy smoke. a pub brawl might, in the unfortunate event, kill 2 or 3 individuals, lung cancer due to passive smoking, could potentially kill far more than that and cause a great deal of long term suffering in the process. The two situations are hardly comparable.

as for Billy, are you saying he CHOSE to get lung cancer because he loves his job? so people who dont want to get lung cancer, and dont smoke shouldnt be allowed to work in bars or clubs without being safe from getting such a horrible disease? get a grip love.

[shelley bda]

i live in the middle of glasgow, love, it's hardly peaceful, but i wouldnt say that pub brawls cause more harm than ciggy smoke. a pub brawl might, in the unfortunate event, kill 2 or 3 individuals, lung cancer due to passive smoking, could potentially kill far more than that and cause a great deal of long term suffering in the process. The two situations are hardly comparable.

as for Billy, are you saying he CHOSE to get lung cancer because he loves his job? so people who dont want to get lung cancer, and dont smoke shouldnt be allowed to work in bars or clubs without being safe from getting such a horrible disease? get a grip love.

Potentially kill, which means it might kill, and no i didn't say he CHOSE to get lung cancer, just saying that he knew the risks when he took a job in a pub/club just like anyone else who choose to work in places like that,

I'm entitled to my thoughts and opinions just like you so You want to patronise someone else now "love" rolleyes:

Anyway enough pointless arguing, i got better things to be doing unlike some so it seems