critical alert

[Bazzlad]

Also being mainly Welsh I still have the right to Britain. We weren't conquered.

[Butuz]

Also being mainly Welsh I still have the right to Britain. We weren't conquered.

Apart from in football and rugby

Butuz

[Bazzlad]

I'm 100% English in that respect Born in and raised in England - but heritage wise, it's Welsh and thus original Britain.

[WLC-1989]

I think if you'll cast your gaze back onto my post Bazzlad, you will see that I stated I do not condone either side. It seems the bulk of your retort is based on blackening the name of Hizbollah, suggesting you believe I support their cause, something I do not, and more to the point, something I have already stated I do not.

Furthermore, you quote my comment about not comparing Hizbollah to random isurgencies. If you had read on, you would have understood the point I was making. Whereas agreeing to a ceasefire with less organised groups would still result in factions within that group going ahead with such attacks anyway, this would most likely not be the case with them. You rhetorically ask whether they cannot be called terrorists, when I never suggested otherwise.

Your comments about Argentina, though obviously meant in essence to discredit my point, lack proper thought on your behalf. Had Britain been formed from the Falkland Islands, via the support of foreign nations, and then proceded to use Israeli-styled aggressions for over 20 years, then yes, I think Argentina would have good reason to retaliate and attack.

Finally, your statement about Jewish kingdoms is, for lack of better words, synonymous with the arguments of people with little room to respond. We are not talking about millenia old kingdoms, we are talking about a nation in the 20th century who had land taken away from them without any input from their own people. Consider the appeasement of Hitler, and how we 'allowed' him to take the Sudetenland. Was that ours to give? No, and thankfully it was returned in due course. Most historians would argue that it was unjust for us to do that, yet apparently, the same is fine if it concerns the touchy subject of Israel.

Let us not bring this argument down to comments you believe are witty, and thus able to discredit my opinions and beliefs. Instead of getting ridiculous about this, you should have considered that in any other instance such actions would be unreservedly criticised. Yet not with Israel. We are not talking about times from long ago. We are talking about something which took place in recent history, which still has lasting ramifications, especially when Israel enforces its policies on those it has already stolen from.

#EDIT#
Would seem I've been beaten to it on my conclusive point, but it still stands.

[EvilWeevil]

Apart from in football and rugby

Butuz

When the Romans arrived they saw a few matches and decided that even though they had brought civilazation to barbarians before, Wales was a lost cause

[BlueMagician]

I've got two friends flying today.. One going out to Canada, and one coming back to the UK from the USA.. Can't think that it's gonna be very entertaining for them


EDIT:

In brief: Hand baggage restrictions are in place; Passengers will be handsearched; Footwear and all items (including pushcairs and walking aids) must be x-ray screened; Liquids will be removed from the passenger.

Sounds painfull..


S.

[Stoo]

I hope it sorts itself out by the time I fly to Vancouver in about 8 weeks, like Howard mentioned there's no way I'm going to put £2000+ worth of camera gear and laptop in the luggage hold.. I've seen the way the handlers throw stuff about..

[Howard]

I hope it sorts itself out by the time I fly to Vancouver in about 8 weeks, like Howard mentioned there's no way I'm going to put £2000+ worth of camera gear and laptop in the luggage hold.. I've seen the way the handlers throw stuff about..

My thoughts exactly

[Steve]

And while everybody's crammed in the queue for security, somebody could walk in and set a bomb off.

A blast in an airport terminal wouldn't look as catastrophic (no airplane crash), but a lot of people could still be injured or killed.

I fear it'll happen, some day.

[MonkeyBum]

Well I'm meant to be going away this sunday but I'm not sure anymore.

This is absouletly getting out of hand. How someone can have such a lack of respect for other people is beyond me, maybe I'm too naive or something. But it's ridiculous. Espically happening in my home area it's just frightening people who live just miles from me are capable of destroying so many lives for a feeble reason.

[charleski]

Might we collectively recall why those two soldiers were taken. Israel was occupying part of Lebannon, a sovereign state.

Israel pulled out of S Lebanon in 2000. I believe there was a small area of still-contested territory comprising a couple of farms that were still under Israeli control, but this has been the case for 6 years and hardly constitutes an 'occupation'.

Also, the catalyst to this crisis was not, as the medias would like you to believe, the soldiers being kidnapped, but indeed, the slaughtering of a family having a picnic on a beach.

The chain of provocation and reaction reaches as far back as you want. Israel pulls out of Gaza, Hamas starts firing rockets from Gaza into Israel, Israel retailiates by shelling the positions and screws up badly, hitting a beach and killing civilians. Hamas retaliates by kidnapping a couple of soldiers. Israel retaliates by sending in troops to get them back.

Then, suddenly, out-of-the-blue, Hezbollah decides to get in on the act. Had there been any skirmishing along the Lebanese border? Not to my knowlege. Was there any reason for Hezbollah's actions other than their Iranian masters deciding the time was right to strike?
Was there any rationale for Hezbollah's action other than to promote further conflict in a situation in which neither they nor Lebanese civilians were under threat?

might I also suggest that Palestinian land which forms the Israeli state, was not there for Israel's taking in the first place. Indeed, if it was Germany's assault on the Jewish people which called for the creation of a Jewish state, should it not have been formed from German land, and not the land of people who had no part in it.

Get your ancient history right. It should have been formed from Italian land, since they were the ones who started this whole mess 1900 years ago. Or you could take a more rational line and say that the solutions to the political problems that we face don't lie in rewriting history. Israel is now an established fact, good or ill. The only road to peace lies in recognising that.

India, Israel and Pakistan have not been ratified the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and by the hypocrisy that is international law, are by definition in possession of illegal nuclear-weaponry. However, as allies of the United States, they are allowed to do this, yet under the same laws, Iran is not.

You see, a simple bit of fact-checking could have cleared up your problem here. India, Israel and Pakistan have not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and so aren't bound by it. Iran has signed the treaty, and so should abide by its obligations under international law. Do you understand now?

[Steve B]

firstly i'd just like to point out that israel have broken more United nations sanctions than all the other coutries combined almost.

however, there are other threads for discussing the Israeli-Hezbollah conflict, so can we keep this on topic

Any more news from heathrow? are any chartered domestic flights operational at the moment?

And while everybody's crammed in the queue for security, somebody could walk in and set a bomb off.

i dont suppose you've seen the film "The Siege" as thats what one of the terrorists tries to do, blow himself up during a march for peace.

[charleski]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Heathrow Airport Website
Liquids will be removed from the passenger.


Sounds painfull..


S.

Or not, dpending on how they're removed....
Double entendre anyone?

[Steve B]

hehe i took that to be a painful meaning first time i read that, just reread it there and got ur drift.

Tsk tsk, naughty boy!

[WLC-1989]

Military incursions by Israeli troops were common-place from those occupied parts which you speak of, Charleski. Furthermore, you tell me I can go back as far as I want (which I have already done), but then go on to say Hizbollah "all of a sudden" decide to get in on the action. Might I remind you I had stated the cause of recent events, and the cause of Israeli aggression. However, if you wish me to reitterate, I will:

Israel attacks innocent family having picnic on beach. Hizbollah attack villages on Israeli-Lebanon border. Two soldiers are then captured by Hizbollah from two Humvees on the Lebanese side of the border, whilst they were on a mission to attack the town of Ayta al-Sha`b. The Israeli PM has stated:

"The war started not only by killing eight Israeli soldiers and abducting two but by shooting Katyusha and other rockets on the northern cities of Israel on that same morning. Indiscriminately".

Yet, as I have just stated, the Israelis had ventured into Lebanonese territory when the soldiers were taken, and the rocket attacks were in response to the slaughter of the family on the beach. I hope that clears up the situation; as you said, the reasons for this conflict go further back, but that snyopsises the events of recent times.

However, I suppose a few weeks ago would count as long ago, if only 50 or so years ago counts as 'ancient history'. You go on to say it's an established state, and that nothing can be done about that. If you had bothered to read my post, you would have noted I had said the same thing. Obviously you had not, nor had you read my further comments about how problems with Israel are not based in 'ancient history', or the 'Jewish kingdoms' of milennia ago, as suggested in another user's post.

Concerning your last point: Perhaps I was too hazy in my explanation of the situation. The United States has stated that the creation of nuclear weapons must be curbed on several occassions. Article I of the NN-PT states that member states are "not to assist any non-nuclear weapon state to manufacture or acquire such weapons or devices". Yet only in March of this year, the US has agreed to give India and Pakistan new nuclear technology, and has already done so with Israel. One could argue this breaches that ruling, yet that is accepted. However, Iran, as a member, is lawfully allowed to enrich Uranium. There is no confirmed or in any way verifiable evidence to suggest they are doing so for reasons of a WMD sense - don't you think the US would have shown it if there was? Seems to me a case of hypocrisy, that it is unacceptable for one country to do things lawfully under the gaze international organisations, yet perfectly acceptable for two nations who have been very unstable in their relations with each other to do just the same for the sole purpose of creating weapons. Same goes for Israel. Do you understand now?

[Bazzlad]

I believe their leader stating he wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the map, whilst asking to enrich plutonium MAY have had something to do with it?

What will it take to get Hamas and Hezbollah to stop attacking Israel? There have been no end of negotiations--the Camp David Accords, the Wye River Accords, the "Roadmap". Do the Arabs honor any of them?

When Egypt came to terms with Israel and kept its word, there was no more trouble with Egypt. The same is true for Jordan, and the same will be true for Lebanon, Syria, the West Bank, and Gaza if they ever stop their attacks.”

Israel lives in peace next to those Arab neighbors that stopped attacking it. If Hamas and Hezbollah stop attacking, Israel will leave in peace next to them, too.



Do YOU understand now?