Little rant on the NHS

[Bazzlad]

Labour have improved the NHS? Don't make me laugh/cry. I worked in the NHS and I can say that the way they get their figures is the reason we have such difficulty getting appointments. Every Doctor I have worked with agrees with that statement. Labour don't listen to Doctors. Labour hires too many admin workers, and set targets which, although look great on paper, are not important, and stretch our resources. How many Trusts are Millions in debt? How many were before.

Give the power back to the Matrons and see waiting lists fall and quality improve.

HIRE NHS CLEANERS instead of paying 3 times the going rate and having agency cleaners who do an awful job.

Change the nGMS contract targets to stop filling the waiting room with healthy patients.

(And stop buying sh*t computer programs off companies who don't deliever.)

Also use ONE constant in reporting (keep basic Llyod Georges) and use either READ codes OR Snomed. Use one software between all NHS buildings, as opposed to the 3 available. (In progress - but surely the most obvious so they can all communicate easily?)

[bertie]

It does suck, I often wonder what visitors to the UK would think of our system.
I have to ring at 8am and battle others to get through to get an appointment, not great if you're feeling lousy.
Always waiting 20 minutes or more too

[UKMuFFiN]

I agree with those saying that when it comes to the crunch, the NHS is there and does its job. We complain about the niggly things where we're simply uncomfortable. We should be grateful for the system we have in that unlike a lot of countries we actually have a system provided by the government. I suppose you could justify the compaints with not having a system this country is capable of... Anyone agree?

[Parm]

One thing I will say about the NHS is that the NHS Direct service is superb, well, it has been for me at least.
Everytime I phone them I find it to be such a satisfactory service, as polite and as helpful as could be.

[badass]

I agree with those saying that when it comes to the crunch, the NHS is there and does its job. We complain about the niggly things where we're simply uncomfortable. We should be grateful for the system we have in that unlike a lot of countries we actually have a system provided by the government. I suppose you could justify the compaints with not having a system this country is capable of... Anyone agree?

We pay through the nose for a service that in some cases more likely to kill us than save us.
My grandmother was killed by an MRSA infection of a wound on her leg.

[Nick]

Sorry dude but that's utter rubbish.

Sure, people die and things could be better, but given that something like 5% of the money pumped into the NHS goes on stupid middle management fees, it's hardly through people in the NHS waking up one morning and saying to themselves "You know what? I feel like 'doing a Shipman' today" is it?

And lets not forget that the NHS helps millions of people and for every heartbreaking story of the NHS topping someone, there's twenty about how they changed peoples lives for the better.

[TamDigital]

Interesting point about hospital cleanliness.

My mother spent 3 months in hospital after a heart problem, two months of that was because she had repeatedly contracted the norwalk virus kept spreading from ward to ward. Whilst there was a hand washing facility for visitors to use when arriving and leaving, we noted each day that hospital staff, such as doctors and nurses, did not use it as they moved from ward to ward. Also, my mother complained daily that the food was only half warm when it arrived, unless the inspector was there with his/her thermometer to check the food temperature.

My father insists its because Labour sacked/got rid of Matrons who daily went through wards ensuring standards were met by all and sundry. He should know really, he's a hospital volunteer who goes around wards taking down radio requests, so I guess he sees most of what happens.

As far as I am concerned, I've noticed that queueing times at hospitals are now far longer than they used to be, you can wait for much more than an hour past your booked appointment. I think this is because the consultants who you are appointed to meet have to also deal with resident patients in the mornings and before meeting out-patients. It did not used to be like this.

Its hard not to blame Labour for this issues since they are in command and at the helm of so called NHS reform. Also take into account their odd habit of taking existing schemes and rebranding them as their own - such as ASBOs which are public orders which have been dealt out by magistrates for years until Labour came along and said 'let's call them ASBOs and say we invented them'. So much money has been squandered on reinventing things (including the Department of Social Security, now called the Department for Work and Pensions) which already exist that perhaps they had to make savings to cover those costs. Ask any civil servant, I doubt you will find them very supportive of Labour now and if the present government doesn't have the support of their own workforce, what does it say about them?

I still maintain that there is a difference between 'the NHS' and the excellent health care professionals who deal with us day by day with little reward.

The NHS Direct service is superb, as mentioned, I've used it thrice where the children are concerned, but it would really come as no shock to see cutbacks in that area if Labour win the next general election, in fact I fully expect it to happen. I feel certain that its those kind of external (to hospitals) services that we will next see suffer cutbacks. Home birth deliveries is another example. My partner had our last child at home, it involved two midwives. Funnily enough, later that week the news was reporting that the government wanted to cutback on the service, implying that it was potentially too dangerous for births to be carried out at home, yet the midwives who attended us said that the rate of hospital admission from home deliveries was exceptionally low. Consider a hospital delivery, where only one midwife delivers the baby and you can see why they'd want to cut back, half the staff and no transport costs are considered better than one less bed.

[Kumagoro]

A work friend of mine said her mother was at hospital getting some kind of physio when she suddenly become all faint and out of it. The nurses then took her to A&E but the doctors said they couldnt see to her as she hadnt come in by ambulance. The doctor then said that they would have to take her off hospital property and call an ambulance.

I was also told this isnt the first time this sort of thing has happened and it had been in the local papers before.

Insane.....

[villarule]

How is it down to surgery staff when Labour make promises that it is simply not possible to meet with the resources tehy provide?
Labour tell everyone that they will be offered an appointment within 48 hours of phoning. There simply aren't the doctors or staff to do that aswell as allow people appointments when they want. So the surgeries work out a way of doing that. The only way is to prevent people from booking more than 48 hours in advance, that way they can offer everyone an appointment within 48 hours of getting through on the phone.

Thats my point. Labour was stuck with the mess than the Tories left behind, and havent done anything to make it better. But people are bitching about the NHS, when all they are doing is trying to meet set targets and work around measures that have been put in place for them. The people at the top of the NHS are earning the money, and are looking out for number one. If targets (and I agree that alot are wrong) arent met, then its them that are going to be in the firing line.

Alot of the problem at local surgerys is the attitude of the staff there. I know at our local one, it seems that the people (especially behind reception) care more about their personal lifes than the people who are (apparently) ill. Remember there are also the drama queens that think they are going to die after coughing a little bit, and sit demanding this that and the other which wastes time, but the doctors cant just throw them out.

At the end of the day, the NHS is a poorly run and over stretched public service that just cannot meet the requirements of the public who are screaming out at deaf governers ears. Like has been said, until there is a government elected who will do a complete overhaul on the NHS, things just arent going to be sorted.

[menthel]

Interesting point about hospital cleanliness.

My father insists its because Labour sacked/got rid of Matrons who daily went through wards ensuring standards were met by all and sundry. He should know really, he's a hospital volunteer who goes around wards taking down radio requests, so I guess he sees most of what happens.

As far as I am concerned, I've noticed that queueing times at hospitals are now far longer than they used to be, you can wait for much more than an hour past your booked appointment. I think this is because the consultants who you are appointed to meet have to also deal with resident patients in the mornings and before meeting out-patients. It did not used to be like this.

Sorry mate, but that is wrong. Labour reinstated 'modern matrons' who they would seem to be getting rid of again because they cost too much. One of my friends other half was a matron in theatres and she was made redundant because of cost cuts. Matrons diasppeared sometime in the late 80's, early 90's when the conservatives privatised things like hospital cleaning.

Clinics run late because they are way overbooked, often by 10-20%. You can be in them all day (and believe me the juniors and consultants are!) and still run very late. This is because of the waiting time targets that people must be seen in a clinic within a certain time. Its a nightmare.

By the way, I am a junior doctor so have first hand experience on how the NHS is falling apart. That is also why I am leaving medicine.

[TamDigital]

Sorry mate, but that is wrong. Labour reinstated 'modern matrons' who they would seem to be getting rid of again because they cost too much. One of my friends other half was a matron in theatres and she was made redundant because of cost cuts. Matrons diasppeared sometime in the late 80's, early 90's when the conservatives privatised things like hospital cleaning.

Clinics run late because they are way overbooked, often by 10-20%. You can be in them all day (and believe me the juniors and consultants are!) and still run very late. This is because of the waiting time targets that people must be seen in a clinic within a certain time. Its a nightmare.

By the way, I am a junior doctor so have first hand experience on how the NHS is falling apart. That is also why I am leaving medicine.

hhmmm, interesting, my father disagrees with you ont eh matron issue. Ah well, we'll have to beg to differ ont hat one.

[Bazzlad]

I'm with Tam Digital.
We can only go with what we've seen firsthand.

Someone earlier said:
"Labour was stuck with the mess than the Tories left behind, and havent done anything to make it better."

Wrong. Labour was stuck with the mess the Tories left behind and HOW MANY BILLION POUNDS OF OUR TAX MONEY? Yet NHS trusts are going MILLIONS in debt?

I wonder why....

Want to know where some of that extra money being spent on the NHS goes? How about on paying a surgeon's £80,000 salary while he is suspended for allegedly taking an extra bowl of soup in the staff canteen? Or maybe covering the £3 million cost of updating the NHS website? Or possibly (and in spite of the additional medical staff recruited last year) the 36,000 managers and 164,000 administration and clerical staff?

[badass]

We pay through the nose for a service that in some cases more likely to kill us than save us.
My grandmother was killed by an MRSA infection of a wound on her leg.

Sorry dude but that's utter rubbish.

Sure, people die and things could be better, but given that something like 5% of the money pumped into the NHS goes on stupid middle management fees, it's hardly through people in the NHS waking up one morning and saying to themselves "You know what? I feel like 'doing a Shipman' today" is it?

And lets not forget that the NHS helps millions of people and for every heartbreaking story of the NHS topping someone, there's twenty about how they changed peoples lives for the better.

I think you've misinterpreted my comments. I at no point suggested this is done deliberately by NHS staff. Secondly, why do you seem to think its OK for the NHS to kill 1 in 20 patients that should survive?
Also, care to tell me whare you got the 5% figure from? Labour per chance? Lets not forget the wastage on failed IT projects aswell
Also, its not just the cost of middle management, its the effect of stupid targets and excessive paperwork and justification for everything on the doctors and nurses, along with having to fight for every penny they get. This all wastes the front line staffs time.

I'll give you a solid figure. My mother, a GP with enough letters after her name to fill half a page has set aside 1/5th of her time for nothing but paperwork related to being a GP. This is never enough and she ends up working extra time to keep up with the paperwork, along with taking holidays to catch up. To do this, she has to hire a locum at a cost of £600 ish per day.
She is also on the committee for her PCT so has a detailed knowledge of how the PCT for her area works and sees:
A. The incredible amount of wastage and
B. The total incompetance of a large number of staff there.
Whats your position in the NHS to know more about its wastage then my mother?

[Tumble]

I bet you would have been even more aggrieved if she'd handed you a bill stapled to your sicknote.

[Bazzlad]

If she'd started giving out bills, I could start demanding more for my money, and making sure I get the right service, or take my custom elsewhere.

(Not that I agree with the NHS charging, BUT it needs sorting out, and quickly)

[b0redom]

To be honest, I don't really think that the health system has got better or worse under Labour. It always has been, and always will be under-resourced.

What makes me chuckle is that if you want to get an appointment for something, say a broken recasting, or whatever, and you manage to get an early appointment, you're invariably the only person under the age of 60 there.

Why hospitals/doctors schedule in crumblies at slots which are far more convenient for working people puzzles me somewhat.

As an aside, if anyone can explain to me why privatising monopolistic industries, or even any service is a good idea I'd be interested to hear. Private cleaners still need managers, admin staff etc, and their priorities are purely based on profit rather than providing a good service.