Gordon Browns Tax Plans,

[JPreston]

going 4 times a year isn't the same as living and working there, one thing you can be sure of anywhere in this world is death and taxes, death is the same all over just the taxes are different that's all

"Live Free or Die"

America doesn't even have so low a tax regime when you include state payroll and sales taxes - they just have a low federal tax rate, which is often incorrectly compared directly to income tax. At least, the tax regime is not particularly forgiving to the working man - they have this fantastic concept called 'supply side economics' which (for example) drives the republicans to abolish inheritance tax altogether even when an exemption of $100 million was suggested in congress - seriously, $100million! They are happy though, because jesus votes republican, amen.

But of course yes american services suck, the schools are all governed by toothless hillbillies and the hospitals will let you burn to death right in the waiting room if you can't pay for the fire extinguisher. And still they have the largest budget deficit in history

[Rack]

Yeah, it's great if you earn good money in the US. Otherwise...

I also go to the US 3-4 times a year. I really don't like the heavy christian atmosphere in the suburbs, the overly-outgoing-but-never-really-know-me personalities. And the ignorance of international affairs is also astounding.

Add to that a worse state of affairs with their public services than here... really poor minimum wages, etc etc.

[chicken]

You prove to me there is a direct link between the fuel duty and the spend on education and probably wouldn't mind.

However we all know it will either be spent on:

1) MPs wages
2) A new initiative
3) A contributions to other countries and EU
4) The war fund
5) A new IT project or supporting an old one.

Exactly. How much more money would we have for education if we weren't busy blowing people up because America said to. (amongst the other things)

Also, what on earth is going on with the NHS IT project? My mum only just got to start using a PC they bought for her about 3 years ago! Talk about a waste of money!

The only tax increase I would back now would be to pay the wages of a small panel of people who's job it is to investigate where our other taxes are getting wasted and how we can stop it.



Edit: My mum works for the NHS by the way and the PC is for her office.

[switchmode]

My 50pence worth plus tax..

If you allow a group of people to demand money with threats legal or otherwise its not surprising they are never satisfied.

We pay more to the government and other EU taxes than we keep our selves.
We work for their benefit not our own.

When you work the first half, and more of the year to pay tax with little idea of who ends up with it. (I seem to remember a military supplie company charging £16,000 for a £50 set of Allan keys.) approximately.

My pet hate is taxes on petrol.. You pay tax on your income, you pay fuel duty, then you pay VAT on the fuel duty (Tax on Tax on Tax) The fuel supplie company's are not by law AFIK allowed to break this down on your receipt because most people do not know how they are being robbed.

Rant over This is the real situation you have next to no say.

[5lab]

We pay more to the government and other EU taxes than we keep our selves.
We work for their benefit not our own.

you're in a tax band of over 50%? impressive, when the most in this country is ~40%..

[dangel]

Soon they'll add road charging too - then they'll be taxing the motorist even more and STILL doing nothing about public transport. God help us that don't have the alternative to a car..

[JPreston]

...You pay tax on your income, you pay fuel duty, then you pay VAT on the fuel duty (Tax on Tax on Tax) ...

...then the oil company pays corporation tax on it's profits, after paying its employees who are themselves taxed, before they spend their money on things with VAT added on in shops that themselves pay tax, these items having been bought from wholesalers who pay tax and most likely import duty, and earlier manufactured by (taxed) factories staffed by tax-paying employees until they die and pay inheritance tax before being buried...thankfully funeral services are exempt of VAT....BUT WAIT - the services of florists and similar optional funeral extras are standard rated for VAT!!!!

OMFG!!! The entire productivity of the world is being swallowed up by taxes!!! NOBODY HAS ANY MONEY OF THEIR OWN!!!



Darn, I forgot to mention National Insurance...

[kalniel]

you're in a tax band of over 50%? impressive, when the most in this country is ~40%..

Income tax isn't the only tax we ever pay. I think the poster was suggesting that income tax plus all the other tax we pay adds up to more of our income than not.

We work for their benefit not our own.

However this is a bit ridiculous. The government isn't there to just make money from us, but to serve us. We elected them afterall. We work for our own benefit, and taxes are exactly that, for our benefit.

[dangel]

However this is a bit ridiculous. The government isn't there to just make money from us, but to serve us.

Whoooooa! Hold on there cowboy - president blair and commorade brown exist _only_ to chuck our money into bottomless pits to assure themselves a nice seat in Hell when they get down there..

We elected them afterall.

'We' didn't

[switchmode]

I did mean all tax as in council tax, business tax which gets added to items and service costs. etc. "We work for their benefit not our own." may not have been the right words but thats how it feels. and yes 5lab its not just a tax band I mean its the real cost to us. Yes money gets spent out again and benefits some people but I'm sure a lot is wasted and hidden on very dubious enterprises. Its the way governments just seem to feel we are all fair game when they are looking to get more money without consultation. Inheritance tax is a tax that was never designed to tax "ordinary familys" but because of a set value will even with adjustments affect a lot of people. Once you have a large property owning public some way any govenment will find a way to take it off you or your family. I'm sure its not all bad and this just ramps up prices which must let more money slosh about if thats good or bad I must say I'v not got a clue.

[Rave]

Inheritance tax is a tax that was never designed to tax "ordinary familys"

It's 'families', but yes that's true.

but because of a set value will even with adjustments affect a lot of people.

Yes, because of the massive boom in house prices that we've seen in this country. Inheritance tax, as I understand it, was originally introduced as a fairness measure to ensure that a small minority of rich families counldn't continue to exert undue influence by passing down all their wealth to their kids.

Nowadays almost nobody under the age of 30, no matter what their background, can afford to buy a family home- at least not without working themselves to the bone and mortgaging themselves to the hilt. If the government takes a chunk of every estate, and forces a lot of property onto the market as a result (because the kids can't afford to keep it and pay the tax) then that seems to me to be fulfilling the original function of inheritance tax, because it's redistributing wealth that people haven't earned. The readership of the Daily Express however want to have their cake and eat it- they were given a great opportunity to buy property, but now it's out of reach of most young people, they want their kids to inherit their property and screw everyone else.

Both my parents own nice properties, which thanks to crazy house prices are both worth more than the inheritance tax threshold- and I don't give a toss, because I was always planning to work hard and buy a house for myself, rather than relying on a handout from my parents. Inheritance tax therefore works 100% in my favour- especially since my parents probably have at least 30 years left in them.

It's all immaterial of course- when the economy tanks, house prices will crash, and then inheritance tax thresholds will be the least of anyone's worries.

Which brings me onto my main point- why is it Gordon, when we've apparently had years of stable growth which is still continuing, that the government is still borrowing money like it's going out of fashion? How exactly do you intend to pay back these government deficits? And what exactly have they bought us?

I'm properly hacked off with the state of this country at the moment- but I know the big recession is almost here, and I can't wait. I have nothing to lose, and if house prices completely crash, everything to gain.

[5lab]

nah, i don't think inherritance tax has anything to do with young people affording housing - the percentage of folks under 30 who's parents have died and left them a house is tiny - life expectancy in this country is over 70, so its really not an issue

as for no-one under 30 being able to afford a house - i could get a flat if i wanted (and i live in one of hte most expensive areas of the country outside of london) - and i'm 24. my ex-gf is buying, she's 24 - most of the people in their late 20s i know have already bought - sure you have to get a largish mortgauge, but why does that matter? people act like its a god-given right to own property before you're 25, in the same way its your right to have a car and drive it wherever you like, but it's not. its NEVER been easy for a young single person to buy a house, and that will NEVER change - 15 years ago interest rates were ~15%, so you couldnt afford naff-all without heavy savings..

[JPreston]

Agreed, it's easy enough to buy a house if you aren't unemployed, plan for it, aren't single, and don't insist on living in Kensington. I'm 29 now, basically everyone I know my age has bought a house or chosen to rent (eg those in central london), including my schoolfriends some of whom left with no GCSEs at all. And we all had free dinners while we were there

[badass]

Agreed, it's easy enough to buy a house if you aren't unemployed, plan for it, aren't single, and don't insist on living in Kensington. I'm 29 now, basically everyone I know my age has bought a house or chosen to rent (eg those in central london), including my schoolfriends some of whom left with no GCSEs at all. And we all had free dinners while we were there

nah, i don't think inherritance tax has anything to do with young people affording housing - the percentage of folks under 30 who's parents have died and left them a house is tiny - life expectancy in this country is over 70, so its really not an issue

as for no-one under 30 being able to afford a house - i could get a flat if i wanted (and i live in one of hte most expensive areas of the country outside of london) - and i'm 24. my ex-gf is buying, she's 24 - most of the people in their late 20s i know have already bought - sure you have to get a largish mortgauge, but why does that matter? people act like its a god-given right to own property before you're 25, in the same way its your right to have a car and drive it wherever you like, but it's not. its NEVER been easy for a young single person to buy a house, and that will NEVER change - 15 years ago interest rates were ~15%, so you couldnt afford naff-all without heavy savings..

Spot on!
It really winds me up people acting like they have a right to own their own house and that the Gov't should "do something about it" Even more annoying is that these people are only in their twenties.
Its a symptom of most people in this country wanting something so thinking they have a right to it.
30 years ago people would wait untill the children have moved out and they were in their forties before mortgaging their house.

Well, to all the stupind idiots that go out and buy houses they cant afford the repayments on and dont plan the largest purchase they will ever make properly - you are going to get what you deserve! Either a huge amount of negative equity for being so impatient, or bankruptcy for lying about your financial circumstances!

[switchmode]

Inheritance tax on houses particularly is only one part of the tax, it covers any items or money. My family all of us had to struggle for our parents to afford to buy a home we all worked on the property over the years as we moved several times we improved some very rundown houses over the years and money and time was spent so that we would all have something to look forward to in old age I do not want the tax man helping himself to that. My mother has said she will buy a smaller cheaper house and spend the remainder rather than let it be taken as tax. Yes the amounts are large the reason that I think is that house prices just ramp up, no one will sell for less than they cost including the improvements made etc in our case. Plus the almost unchecked supply of money available now, till the bubble bursts if ever.

Just as an aside I'm mid forty's and a friend of mine is 64 he tells me that when he wanted to buy his first house it was like the third degree to get any bank or finance institution to lend to a man who worked with his hands in a trade, now it seem you can "self certify" and get almost any amount as long as you lie and make the payments no one cares, that's why people are buying to rent and also speculating with property. This is driving up prices and it is unfair if you are trying to buy for a home granted, but to tax people who have worked and payed tax on their money twice is plain wrong, why bother buying or maintaining anything ?

[chicken]

Spot on!
It really winds me up people acting like they have a right to own their own house and that the Gov't should "do something about it" Even more annoying is that these people are only in their twenties.

Hi, I'm a person in my twenties and I believe that the government should "do something about it", not because it's my God-given right to own a house but because there is something that they can do.

More and more people today are jumping on the landlord wagon, which works something like this: You have property, you rent it, use the money to buy more property, rent that, buy more, rent that and so on...

The amount of people buying multiple properties pushes the price up, making it harder for us "people in our twenties" to afford it. The only other option is to rent, meaning the tenant is paying out money that could be going into a house for them, to the landlord who then uses this to buy more houses which keeps the prices higher than they would be if people settled for 1 house each, making it harder for the tenant to get out of this loop.

What we need is for the government to tax higher for owning a lot of properties. This will keep the prices fairer for first-time buyers and anyone with multiple properties bringing in rent already has a hefty income.

I'm not asking for a free house, just a better chance against the people who have many. I'm fed up of paying someone else so that they can buy more.