ATI X1800XT Preview

[kalniel]

I thought I saw a few reviews based on the OC'd retail NVidia's - they did as expected, namely reducing the X1800's leads in some games, and increasing the 7800's leads in others.

Either way buying a 7800 isn't a bad choice. We'll have to see what the ATI partners come up with in terms of actual clocks and pricing, but it's not going to be anything to make you regret having a green card

Personally the 1600xt is more my cup of tea but all the reviews have so far left me with more questions than answers. The last review I read even did their 'low-end/budget' review using an athalon FX55!! Yes yes all well and good for eliminating CPU bottle necks, but come on!

Super-frustrating - it seems the general impression is the x800gto is basically better than the x1600xt.. but no-one's done that exact comparison and I'm just getting that from estimating. But also why would ATI release a mid-range card that's worse than the last generation.. unless in real-world mid-range systems it's actually better.. but no-one's telling me! And I can't believe NVidia have abandoned the mainstream market either.

[nameinuse]

Has anyone heard any more on this HDR combined with AA thing? I'm sure I read somewhere that nVidia cards can't do AA and HDR at the same time, whereas the new ATi boards can.

If that's true, it's quite a descision maker for me - running a 1280x1024 TFT means that AA is pretty important to me, and I don't want to miss out on HDR for the sake of it. If not, then I'll be buying a 7800GTX and a new mobo to match next week

[dangel]

Has anyone heard any more on this HDR combined with AA thing? I'm sure I read somewhere that nVidia cards can't do AA and HDR at the same time, whereas the new ATi boards can.

If that's true, it's quite a descision maker for me - running a 1280x1024 TFT means that AA is pretty important to me, and I don't want to miss out on HDR for the sake of it. If not, then I'll be buying a 7800GTX and a new mobo to match next week

I don't get that - http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2005/...nchmark/2.html seem to imply they used HDR with 2x/8x enabled... with an nVidia 7800!
Wish valve would bloody release lost coast!!!

The Cry engine developer he says:

"Depending on which HDR is being used, AA will work. OpenEXR on the GeForce 6 series and up can't have AA enabled unfortunately. I'm a strong believer in not using post render effects but it can't be avoided with HDR."
(http://www.elitebastards.com/page.ph...d=1&comments=1)

[dangel]

"Sapphire, Power Color, Connect 3D, HIS are listed on the site and you will have to spend an average of £320.00 for a X1800XL card clocked at 500 / 1000 MHz. Crossfire and Radeon X1800XT edition is expected to start on 10th of November, just in time for Thanksgiving shopping. Sapphire's X1800XT 256 MB Crossfire edition will cost £399 including VAT and it's interesting to not that this card is actually working at 600MHz not 625 as its X1800XT slave brother.

Radeon X1800XT clocked at standard 625MHz core and 1500MHz memory is listed for £411 while 512 MB version is listed for £469.94 including VAT.

If you want an X1800XL grab it on Tuesday, we spoke with a few manufacturers and they confirmed that they will have those cards in next week but if you are aiming for Crossfire or X1800XT you will have to wait a whole month. µ"

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26753

[Octavean]

I have read that the X1800XL uses an older chip then the X1800XT. Perhaps some of the X1800XT rejects before the re-design,…?

I don’t know, I think it might be best to go with a Sapphire X800GTO2 pipe unlocked and oced to X850XT PE or a 7800GT(X). Either way, it looks like you would save money over the X1800xxxx class.

I just cannot see paying a premium for an X1800xxx.

[zawer612]

there are many methods of achieving HDR, using the OpenEXR method (as in farcry and Splinter cell) then only the X1800 series can have AA enabled. Valve has implemented HDR differently and as such AA+HDR can be enabled on most, if not all cards (X800, 6800, etc). So, as long as the OpenEXR method, which some regard as the 'proper' or 'best' method of acheiving HDR is not used then all cards should be able to have AA and HDR.
The thing to remember is though, will HDR+AA pull in satsfactory frame rates? if not then it will pretty much be next to useless....

[dangel]

there are many methods of achieving HDR, using the OpenEXR method (as in farcry and Splinter cell) then only the X1800 series can have AA enabled. Valve has implemented HDR differently and as such AA+HDR can be enabled on most, if not all cards (X800, 6800, etc). So, as long as the OpenEXR method, which some regard as the 'proper' or 'best' method of acheiving HDR is not used then all cards should be able to have AA and HDR.
The thing to remember is though, will HDR+AA pull in satsfactory frame rates? if not then it will pretty much be next to useless....

Makes sense. I used to never use AA simply because of the drop in framerate, I could probably live without it with HDR on, but i've not tried it (yet) to see..

[Richdog]

Wow interesting to see how err... 'enthusiastic' Hexus seems to be with the X1800XT compared to just about every other hardware review site.

The X1800XL is a flop, the 7800GT beats it on price/performance by far, indeed currently the XL actually costs the same as a 7800GTX! 2x 7800GT in SLI is a FAR better purchase than 2x X1800 in crossfire, there's no competition when a 7800GT costs £235 and an X1800XL £320.

The X1800XT launch is almost as bad as the diabolical X800XT PE launch a couple of years ago... scandalous availability and a good £100+ more expensive than the 7800GTX... it is a complete no-brainer. If it was the same price as a 7800GTX then things would be different... unfortunately it's not.

I was really rooting for ATI to pull something out of the bag this round and all I feel is dissappointment... too little too late. Nothing to get excited about whatsoeve. I can only pray R600 is all it's cracked up to be if ATI want to retain a loyal fanbase.

Pretty shameful really... and criticism ATI are currently receiving is fully deserved.

[kempez]

I do actually agree about the Hexus thing: far too enthusiastic when the x1800xt is far more expensive than even nvidia's top spec (currently) card. Its a bit one-sided afaics. Not that I'm dissing the Hexus staff: but what did ya get (j/k guys )

Makes sense. I used to never use AA simply because of the drop in framerate, I could probably live without it with HDR on, but i've not tried it (yet) to see..

And dya know I'm really not sure how this AA/HDR debate goes. As far as DoD: I left the settings at 4x/8x like I had it automatically. I dunno - can't see any jaggies whenI play DoD: but then I may just be drooling at the luverley view

[Andrzej]

(This is 'Andrzej' - but I have created new logins for uniformity across the forum and main - hence surname )

Like most things in life, you get what you pay for

When tested properly, the results for the X1800 XT are simply awesome

If you are not happy with the HEXUS figures (surprising cos Rys Rocks ), then try somewhere like Tom's Hardware and you will get a similar picture

I have seen some publications working with 'less than the best' kit and getting 'unusual results'

High end graphics these days push the system like nothing else

To test the card (and not the system it is sitting in) means getting the right test environment

This is a challenge for all publications - especially the smaller ones who may not get technology like the FX=series as early (or for as long) as the global players

The crucial thing here though is that this is not simply about speed

To understand what ATI is doing with the X1000 series - you need to see an X1800XT running 'Toy Shop' in all its glory

This is a jaw-dropping piece of work that stresses a ton of cool technologies - and really gives the viewer a glimpse into the way that the future will look

If you have not seen Toy Shop - run a full set of benchmarks yourself on a 'bottleneck-free-PC' - seen it 'muller' the games of tomorrow - charged on to an HDR beach in FarCry with maximum AA and AF settings - and watched a single card score over 12,250 in 3DMark05...

...then you really cannot comment on this product from a 'value' point of view

Is a Ferrari F40 expensive - or good value ?

If you are one of those gamers who really must have 'the best of the best'...

...then making a purchasing decision before seeing the X1800 XT in full flow is a serious mistake

No sales pitch intended - this is solely meant to inform

[UKMuFFiN]

Ruby

[Octavean]

ATI Radeon X1800XL 256MB PCIe VIVo = $469

ATi RADEON X850 XT 256MB PCIe TVO/DVI = ~$350

Sapphire Radeon X800GTO2 256MB GDDR3 PCIe DVI/TVO = ~$250

Looking at some of the benchmarks of the X1800XT, X1800XL, X1600XT, X1300 Pro, X850XT PE, 7800GTX and 7800GT I found it rather interesting that the X1800XL and X850XT PE yield very close performance,…yet not at the same price,…

Many X850XT PE cards at ~$350 already cost less then the X1800XL at ~$469. If we also consider that the Sapphire X800GTO2 can attain equivalent or quasi X850XT PE performance levels at about ~$250 I’m force to say that you don’t always get what you pay for,…some times you get more,…sometimes you get less.

However, in terms of 7800GT(X) vs X1800XT price performance ratio, I think the early (pre-launch) benchmarks only served to muddy the waters. Post X1000 series launch benchmarks to some extent only served to confuse many. Simply put, in the mind’s eye of many, X1800XT performance superiority over 7800GTX is unclear at best and the only thing certain is that the manufacturer’s suggested retail price is higher then that of the street price of the 7800GTX.

Since I’m no longer the type to buy the highest end card (I've done it before and it just doesn’t give me a warm and fuzzy feeling), I’m looking to the X1800XL rather then the X1800XT and the 7800GT rather then the 7800GTX. Now I know that the newer and upcoming SM 3.0 applications may show a noteworthy performance gap between the X1800XL, X850XT PE and X800GTO2 (unlocked and overclocked) but for right now if the $250 priced card can keep up with the $469 priced card,….I’d have to have a hole in my head to buy the more expensive card,…not to mention the larger hole in my wallet.

[Andrzej]

Sorry if I missed it - but you did not sem to mention your screen type/size

If you are running a 17" or 19" TFT like the majority of new computer owners over the past 3 tears...

...then you will be limited to 1280x1024 - which should make getting the 'right card' much easier (and cheaper )

[fredered]

I can only pray R600 is all it's cracked up to be if ATI want to retain a loyal fanbase.

I think this is the telling thing, ati have not got the current generation avaliable yet and people are allready looking to their next chip

[fuji]

ATI X1800 XL 256MB for $430.00 in the US. (Pre-order)
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merch...adeon+X1800+XL

[Octavean]

ATI X1800 XL 256MB for $430.00 in the US. (Pre-order)
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merch...adeon+X1800+XL

monarchcomputer.com is great and I have bought from them before but something seems odd about their prices:

ATI (Connect3D) Radeon X1800 XL 256MB GDDR3/PCI-E/AVIVO/Dual-DVI (OEM) (ETA 10/12) $469.
ATI (Original) Radeon X1800 XL 256MB GDDR3/PCI-E/AVIVO/Dual-DVI (Retail Box) $430

Why on earth would the Retail box cost less then the OEM!?!

Either it’s a mistake or maybe the OEM price will drop significantly when it is available,….I don’t know,….