News - Sony and BBC clash over PS3 problems

[lodore]

i also dont know how a console with over half of them failure gained such a big market. i also dont know why people complain about ipods breaking in roughly 18months and yet still buy the next one and it happerns again....

[watercooled]

Maybe because MS replace it for free... Makes no difference to the user really and you get a 1 month XBL card thrown in too.

[cordas]

i also dont know how a console with over half of them failure gained such a big market.

Maybe its because MS has a decent warranty scheme, no quibbles replacement for RROD makes the fact that it falls over irrelevant... In fact some people are really happy when they get RROD because it resets their warranty.

As I have said Sony have turned an opportunity to get a boat load of good publicity and improve their brand image, into a stink that is going to hurt their entire brand.

[Mattus]

One half of one percent of 2.5m IS 12,500. And 'fewer than' can really mean anything. Not a very convincing denial, really.

[Yosh]

hence the complaints to Watchdog....

An astounding 170 complaints so i hear.

I would suggest the library of games (and the developers comments about not bothering to develop for the PS3) are a product of the popularity of the Xbox....

I read the suggestion was that the pricing for the PS3 was/has been to high, hence why developers have been pushing Sony to drop the price of the unit.

How has a console with a 50%+ failure rate managed to build such a huge fan base? How has it managed to get every developer wanting to develop games for a console where half the consoles break within 18months of purchase? Surely such a high failure rate should have killed off the platform.... Afterall £150-200 is a fair chunk of money and most people in the real world ain't going to be chucking that away every 18months on a console?


The reason I would suggest is because MS pulled their heads out from where the sun don't shine and started looking after their customers. Yes it may have taken the threat of legal action to make them do it, but they did it and are reaping the rewards of having far greater market share than the PS3.

I have not commented or disagreed on any of the above points.

Sony's stance on watchdog is a huge own goal.... they have effectively put 2 fingers up at people who own one of their consoles and have been unlucky enough to had one that has broken, given the increasing stink over this I can see this damaging the entire sony brand as it puts a question mark over not just their reliability but their customer service. Sony have gone to a fair amount of expense to build themselves a decent rep for making reliable equipment over the last decade or so, and I know half a dozen people who have specifically bought Sony goods on the back of that rep. If Sony want to flush that away then they are going the right way about it.... I just think they are insane.

Nothing new here, need i quote their ventures in the MMO genre.

Are Sony bothered by this? Probably not.

Its not the first time they have been in a similar situation, but they have enough funding to push themselves through this, by the time the next generation hits they will still have loyal customers.

[TooNice]

Sony could have used this as a chance to win a good bit of brand loyalty, in the same way Microsoft have with the Xbox360 and its RROD. You have a console that has over a 50% failure rate and it has huge brand loyalty.... Why? Because the manufacturer realised that brand loyalty is worth far more to it than extending the warranty cost.

I'd say that brand loyalty is the least of their concerns. Sony's Playstation brand can't be much stronger than it is, the PS was the best selling console of it's generation (3x more than it's nearest competition). The PS2 is not only the best selling console of it's generation, but also the best selling console of all time. Lots of console gamers loved the PS1 and PS2. Yet the PS3 lagged in sales from the beginning. Long before anyone even heard of this YROD. To put it bluntly, for most console gamers, it's not the right product for the right price. That's why it's in the last position this generation, and that's why I doubt that that an extended warranty would help their cause much. Most people can't justify it to begin with.

As for Microsoft? What Microsoft did (very successfully I might add), is damage control. It's more crucial to Microsoft than it is for Sony because this is only Microsoft's second console, and while the first one did decently, it did not acquire the type of following the PS2 did. But I do not think that's the only reason why they still going strong. For a start, it had a one year lead on the other consoles of it's generation. It was also cheaper. Furthermore, most seem to agree that the Xbox Live! is better than what is offered by competition consoles in this generation. And with broadband standard in most places, online multiplayer has really picked up in this generation. I'd say that it's the combination of right product at the right price (and perhaps timing) that's allowing it do so well in this generation. Of course, the RROD warranty also prevented them from haemorrhaging sales as their reputation sank. So yeah, excellent damage control. But the YROD is nowhere as common compared the RROD, so any loss of loyalty would've been minimal (relatively few people have a problem) while any gains from the positive PR, probably minimal too (people are not buying the PS3 anyway, not because they fear about the YROD, but for other reasons).

so its ok to create a console that is craply made as long as it has a decent warranty?

Microsoft make consoles that are badly made. I kinda assume its because of two reasons 1. they are an American company and American companies don't care about build quality. 2. they are a software company. they use their customers as beta testers and if it doesnt work they slowly fix it later on and then replace the consoles that break.

japanese people reject stuff that they could make better. im sure in japan there is alot more wii's and ps3's sold. thats because they wont touch the xbox because it doesnt meet their standards. why buy crap from america when you can get a very well made console in your own country?
Sony on the otherhand make sure all their products are of the best quality thats why my ps1 still works perfectly.

No, I do not think that it is fine to create an unreliable product and just 'patch' it with a longer warranty. You are also correct about the PS3 and Wii outselling the Xbox in Japan. I am also inclined to agree that they do tend to emphasise on quality.

However, American companies do not care about build quality? For a start, most consoles (or at least PS3s) are manufactured in China. I do not have an Xbox360 to check, but I doubt it's not assembled there either (and even if not lots of components would be - ditto for the PS3). Fine, you did not talk about manufacturing, let's talk design. Intel? AMD? nVidia? Corsair? IBM?.. Okay, fine, they did make that Deathstar. But hang on, didn't Sony have that exploding batteries episode in regard to their laptops? Let's be honest, yes the Xbox360 definitely has issues, at least in it's early iterations, but it's nowhere an indication of American company/product quality (no I am not American). Lots of people are happy with Microsoft keyboard/mice/gamepads and those last years. And while Japanese products are often of great quality, they have their share of problems too (exploding battery not being the only issues Sony had to face in recent years).

About Japanese rejecting the XBox because of it's poor quality. Well, I am not convinced either. The Xbox360 never sold that amazingly at launch compared to the PS3 and the Wii in Japan, and that was before the RROD became well-known. A far more likely reason, is that Japanese are (generally) pre-disposed to favour Japanese products over foreign products in the first place. Furthermore, Japanese consoles tend to have more Japanese exclusive games, suited for domestic tastes (we only ever see a fraction of the J-RPGs here). It's plausible that Japanese are indeed less tolerant to poorly made consoles, and would be less forgiving regardless of extended warranties, but I still reckon that the Xbox360 could be made like a tank, the PS3/Wii still would've outsold it. It's just a tough market for a foreign brand to break (it's feasible - but not easy).

[manwithnoname]

less than 1percent. you really would have to be unlucky. compare that to 54percent of xbox360's breaking. nothing is perfect. sony stuff is far more reliable that most other brands. i have had my ps2 since lanch day and it still works perfectly. my ps1 still works perfectly. mysony walkman ive had for around 3-4 years and it still works perfectly. i think you get the idea now lol.

Smoke and mirrors? I'd say it's very good publicity for Sony if people now have the impression that the total PS3 failure rate is 0.5% ...

12,500 failures out of 2,500,000 sold is the same as 'half of one percent'. Reading into the Sony quote they state the failure rate is 'fewer than half of one percent' but this implies it must be pretty close to this because otherwise they would word it differently. Therefore it seems like Sony's rebuttal is actually supporting the BBC's statistics.

The BBC also alleged that, by Sony’s own admission, around 12,500 of the 2.5m PS3s sold in the UK since March 2007 have broken down in the same way.

But Sony has since staunchly denied the claims.

“Fewer than one half of one percent of [UK] units have been reported as failing in circumstances where the yellow indicator is illuminated”, the Japanese electronics giant said in its rebuttal to the BBC.

Er, I've just put these figures into Excel, and it reckons that 12,500 is precisely one half of one per cent.

So, does that mean that, in fact, only 12,499 PS3s were faulty or that, instead, Sony actually sold 2,500,001 PS3s?

Bob C

It's a bit ambiguous if you ask me, are Sony saying that of the units that fail less than 0.5% of these have the "yellow indicator" fault? (It a big difference, you might have 1250 that have failed with the "yellow indictor", but up to 250000 units failed in total). I don't blame Sony for not quoting the numbers or percentages because the media would have a field day with headlines.

I'd be very impressed if the total failure rate of the PS3 was 0.5%, but we have no confirmed figures to base this on.

[TheAnimus]

Smoke and mirrors? I'd say it's very good publicity for Sony if people now have the impression that the total PS3 failure rate is 0.5% ...

Sony do have VERY good build quality, my sony HD music player from 6 years ago, is still going strong. My flat mates ipod broke 4 months after purchase, the wifi range is now awful. With sony people expect a good build quality.

now for the PS3 the build quality is obviously better than the 360, it cost a lot lot more to make.

I know no one who has a broken ps3, yet i'm still worried that my 360 is likely to break. Sony screwed up a lot of things, they made it to complecitated to program, costing too much.

[manwithnoname]

Sony do have VERY good build quality, my sony HD music player from 6 years ago, is still going strong. My flat mates ipod broke 4 months after purchase, the wifi range is now awful. With sony people expect a good build quality.

now for the PS3 the build quality is obviously better than the 360, it cost a lot lot more to make.

I know no one who has a broken ps3, yet i'm still worried that my 360 is likely to break. Sony screwed up a lot of things, they made it to complecitated to program, costing too much.

Sony do have a reputation for good build quality and prices that reflect that, but having reputation gives no guarantee of future build quality. There is no data to support "this figure of 0.5%", and I get the impression people now believe the total failure rate is around 0.5% as they may have misinterpreted Sony's response.

[TheAnimus]

i thought they where quite clear its 0.5% for the generic yellow failure?

thats not a bad failure rate at all in my book. Optical/hard drive failures and power failures are probably the only excluded

[cordas]

If they are so happy with such a low failure rate why not give a warranty worth the name?

[Stringent]

Funny, I know two friends who have had their blu-ray drives go on their original launch models. They since got a then 40GB version free of charge. So far my original 60GB launch console hasn't died on me. I have upped the hard drive to 320GB recently and its still fine.

Wasn't the guy who did Watchdog very pro Microsoft I heard? Plus he is supposed to be very anti-Sony. Did Watchdog do a report of the large failure rate of the XBox 360?

I don't know anyone who has had the yellow light on theirs though.

[TheAnimus]

I don't know anyone who has had the yellow light on theirs though.

Thats the thing with me, i know a few people who've had RROD on their 360, but not one person who has had a failure with their ps3.

mabye thats just because no one bought a ps3 thou.

[Grey M@a]

Thats the thing with me, i know a few people who've had RROD on their 360, but not one person who has had a failure with their ps3.

mabye thats just because no one bought a ps3 thou.

My brother has been real unlucky with his PS3's, he is now on his third PS3 in a year. The first one the Blu Ray drive failed within a week of ownership and when it was returned it was another two weeks and he got the yellow light issue and the one he has now seems to be working fine fingers crossed.

Reading through this thread though it seems a lot of people are confused as to why a lot of us still go out and buy the 360 even though "45%" fail, I say "45%" as a sample of just over 5000 people isn't exactly representative of the total units sold. Anyway back on track.... The 360 sells as everyone knows that if you buy one even if you are out of the years warranty they will cover the RROD for up to 3 years. If your 360 dies then you send it off and a week later its back and with Sony, it dies outside of the year warranty, in Sony's eyes you can take a run and jump and go buy another one. People aren't going to buy a console every year to replace a broken unit. Microsoft have it right, take the hit and keep the customer happy, replace the unit due to a defect in the earlier units.

I must admit though, Sony are shocking for after sales help. My original PS2 broke just after its first year as I had a release day model and the DVD Drive packed in. I called sony and they wanted £98 +VAT to collect it and repair it. In the end I took it to a computer fair locally and the guy had the cd drive, with all the screw drivers needed for £18 so I fixed it myself. Same with the Sony LCD my brother has, 16 months old and half the screen is blurred and the screen makes a whistling noise, yet again Sony don't want to know. From my personal experiences with Sony items over the last few years it seems they are cutting corners and their once bullet proof quality with myself has reached the point where I am sick of calling their support lines to be told it will cost x,y and z to replace a 40" LCD that is 16 months old and that it must be our fault or we dropped it to cause that problem where the TV in reality has been sat on the same stand for the 16 months of ownership. Sony did eventually replace the 40" LCD for my brother after we pointed out the sales of goods act to them and sent a letter to them from a solicitor to ask for a full refund and costs of 18 weeks of calls and waiting in queues on their understaffed support lines.

I am glad I went with Samsung for my 37" Series 5 LCD and the same with the netbook and monitors for my pc etc. Any problems I've had have been dealt with there and then without a problem, even in the case of the TV which was two years old and started to get a high pitched whistle from it. They took it away and charged me £35 for shipping and replacing the problem parts.

Even though this is the case, I am still looking at a PS3, purely because it would cost me £180 for a decent blu ray player so for £250 I can get the PS3 and also be able to play the Sony exclusives that won't hit the 360. I do think Sony could of handled it better though, it's not exactly the fault of the user who is sitting their playing their game or watching a blu ray and then all of a sudden they get a defect in the console. Sony could at least repair it on the cheap or take the hit as Microsoft did and repair it. We aren't talking 10 year old machines, these PS3's are just out of their 12 month warranty or 2 or so years old. From what I am seeing though, this BBC Watchdog spat with Sony isn't going to harm the sales much, from friends who are working in the likes of Game, HMV and GameStation they are all saying that since the Slim launched the sales are through the roof for the PS3 units they have in stock.

[Georgy291]

on 360s RROD only happens to heavy users. So i dont see how this is a direct comparison to PS3s issues.

If your a heavy user then expect something to fail, since you cant make something that will last very long under tha kind of use.

Same with a car, buy a brand new car and take it to a track (eg silverstone) id expect it to brake quickly too unless it was a specially build race car. where as if you use it "normaly" driveing around to places etc then it will last for ages

same with consoles they are desighned to be used for a certain amount of time say per day etc, those heavy users only have them selves to blame as they are using it outside those desighns. So its completely users fault and MS are only replacing them out off kindness, and its not neccesary for sony to do the same. however if a Console fails from accasional use (not heavy) then thats a different story

[Yosh]

If they are so happy with such a low failure rate why not give a warranty worth the name?

You need to think from both views and not so one tracked.

Why do they have to give longer than 1 year?