News - Sony and BBC clash over PS3 problems

[scaryjim]

"But since the issue appears to affect consoles after 18-24 months of use, the BBC claimed that Sony said it isn't liable."

Of course they're liable

Simply not true. That would only be the case if the consumer could *prove* that the cause of the fault was present when they took possession of the console, and even then they wouldn't necessarily be entitled to a repair as Sony could argue that the cost of repair or replacement would be disproportionate compared to providing compensation commensurate with the amount of use the consumer has had out of the console (i.e. you've had 18 months of play from the console so it's not reasonable for you to have another brand bew console). Things wear out. If you don't like the fact buy your console from a supplier who offers extended warranties...

[finlay666]

my 50" plasma came with a 12 month woranty......most off my computer bits to

consoles arent built to last tho, they are built so that they last a expected life time. i guess sony just want people to buy their new slim line one

Your 50" plasma you expect to break after a year? Are you having a laugh?

I suppose on those cars with a 3 year warranty you expect the head gaskeet to blow the day after it's out of warranty on a £30k car

And you complain that you're a hard up student.......

They are expected to last a reasonable amount of time, memory serves correct EU ruling states 2 (possibly 3) years things like this should last for

Just saying something came with something doesn't make it acceptable. My Toshiba laptop went for 5 or 6 years and came with a 1 year warranty... only thing needed replaceing was the HDD and battery as consumables. My current laptop came with a 3 year warranty as standard and I wouldn't expect any less tbh

As for consoles lasting.... they are. My N64 still works, so does my ORIGINAL game boy and Master System

[Bob Crabtree]

The BBC also alleged that, by Sony’s own admission, around 12,500 of the 2.5m PS3s sold in the UK since March 2007 have broken down in the same way.

But Sony has since staunchly denied the claims.

“Fewer than one half of one percent of [UK] units have been reported as failing in circumstances where the yellow indicator is illuminated”, the Japanese electronics giant said in its rebuttal to the BBC.

Er, I've just put these figures into Excel, and it reckons that 12,500 is precisely one half of one per cent.

So, does that mean that, in fact, only 12,499 PS3s were faulty or that, instead, Sony actually sold 2,500,001 PS3s?

Bob C

[TooNice]

To be honest, I expect a console to last the duration of the generation (and no, a slimmer console, or a console with larger HD is not what I would call next gen, merely a refresh).

[HSK]

Far too much goes wrong with consoles these days...I don't just mean PS3's, the rest of them too.

I was actually surprised to hear about PS3's messing up, I've only heard from Xbox owners, and the amount of times they've had to send back their machines.

I have a PS1 and PS2 that still work, and old skool consoles! back in the day, if a snes games etc didn't work, you blew in/on the cartridge, and some how it worked, of course there wasn't any sensible reasoning behind it, lol, but yea, it worked. simpler times!

[shadowmaster]

The PS3 is a reasonably well build console, almost ten of my friends have had one for the last 2 years including me and none of us have faced a problem with it. On the other hand the ones with Xbox 360 have returned their console numerous times due to RROD.

I have a PS1 and PS2 that still work, and old skool consoles! back in the day, if a snes games etc didn't work, you blew in/on the cartridge, and some how it worked, of course there wasn't any sensible reasoning behind it, lol, but yea, it worked. simpler times!

My snes still works along with my Sega Dreamcast, Sega Saturn and Gamecube. Btw I used to smack the cartridge against the wall if it didn't work. I was young then and didn't know any better but I swear it worked.

[cordas]

If Sony think 12months is fine then thats their loss, most people don't. Most people expect that their electronic goods will last a LOT longer than that, but if Sony think they are stupid then Sony will have to live with the backlash from angry customers.

Sony could have used this as a chance to win a good bit of brand loyalty, in the same way Microsoft have with the Xbox360 and its RROD. You have a console that has over a 50% failure rate and it has huge brand loyalty.... Why? Because the manufacturer realised that brand loyalty is worth far more to it than extending the warranty cost.

The more I think about this the more I just have to laugh at Sony... the PS3 is struggling, it has little market share, a virtually non-existent set 'exclusive' games, major developers saying they aren't developing for the PS3 because it just isn't worth it and to top it all Sony are giving a huge 2 fingers to its customers because a pitifully small number of consoles are dying....

Seriously they could have scored a huge goal not just for their console but for their entire brand if they had turned up on watchdog and extended their warranty by 12 months.

[Yosh]

I don't see what all the fuss is about, need i quote MS failure rates, where is the watchdog campaign vs MS.

I think its another case of journalists being mis-informed.

All stores offer the 12 months, most of them offer extended warranties, if you choose not to take it, who's fault is it, its quite simple, if you don't like the companies terms, don't buy their product.

[cordas]

I don't see what all the fuss is about, need i quote MS failure rates, where is the watchdog campaign vs MS.

I think its another case of journalists being mis-informed.

All stores offer the 12 months, most of them offer extended warranties, if you choose not to take it, who's fault is it, its quite simple, if you don't like the companies terms, don't buy their product.

The reason there isn't a fuss about MS failure rates is because they have a reasonable warranty... If your xbox dies with RROD then you give MS a call, put it in a box and send it off to them, and a new one arrives often within a week. I have numerous friends who have had 3-4 RROD failures, I even have friends who have more than one xbox so they can use a spare xbox they keep on hand for when their fancy / newer one breaks.

MS have built up huge fan loyalty despite (maybe even because of) having a 50%+ failure rate... doesn't that show how narrow minded / retarded Sony are being over the YROD?

As for extended warrantys I remember when they used to be for extending your warranty past a reasonable length... i.e. past 3 or 5 years.... companies are taking the piss with this 1 year bollocks, and many of them are getting slapped by the EU over it, and quite rightly so. I am sorry but its unreasonable of companies to only warranty their goods for 1 year!

[Barrichello]

The PS3 is reasonably well build console, almost ten of friends have had one for the last 2 years including me and none of us have faced a problem with it. On the other hand the ones with Xbox 360 have returned their console numerous times due to RROD.

Same, i can live with less than 1% chance of failure, would of been nice if my old 360 (god bless its rrod soul) had of been as reliable.

[confusingcircle]

What watchdog failed to say (apart from the fact the repair team they used would charge just as much as sony to fix) is that you are protected under the sale of goods act afaik.

Provided you haven't thrown your console down the stairs or damaged it, then it has to be "fit for purpose for a reasonable time". I'm sure there are people who can correct me, but for upto 6 years you can claim 'damages' which could be a replacement product if you have a failure that is not caused my misuse.

It is up to the seller to refund/compensate you. Take a look at a very handy and ironic BBC article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8253915.stm

[Yosh]

The reason there isn't a fuss about MS failure rates is because they have a reasonable warranty... If your xbox dies with RROD then you give MS a call, put it in a box and send it off to them, and a new one arrives often within a week. I have numerous friends who have had 3-4 RROD failures, I even have friends who have more than one xbox so they can use a spare xbox they keep on hand for when their fancy / newer one breaks.

MS have built up huge fan loyalty despite (maybe even because of) having a 50%+ failure rate... doesn't that show how narrow minded / retarded Sony are being over the YROD?

As for extended warrantys I remember when they used to be for extending your warranty past a reasonable length... i.e. past 3 or 5 years.... companies are taking the piss with this 1 year bollocks, and many of them are getting slapped by the EU over it, and quite rightly so. I am sorry but its unreasonable of companies to only warranty their goods for 1 year!

I would be happy with 12 months on a product that cost me £170 to buy, anymore warranty i would be thankful for.

I would suggest fan/loyalty comes with the library of games offered on the 360 and the price.

Generally newer models i.e. Jasper chipset's do not fail, or have a much lower failure rate, it is early to tell but it has been stated that Jasper revision seemingly has fixed (*extensively reduced the chance) the rrod issue.

[lodore]

so its ok to create a console that is craply made as long as it has a decent warranty?

Microsoft make consoles that are badly made. I kinda assume its because of two reasons 1. they are an American company and American companies don't care about build quality. 2. they are a software company. they use their customers as beta testers and if it doesnt work they slowly fix it later on and then replace the consoles that break.

japanese people reject stuff that they could make better. im sure in japan there is alot more wii's and ps3's sold. thats because they wont touch the xbox because it doesnt meet their standards. why buy crap from america when you can get a very well made console in your own country?
Sony on the otherhand make sure all their products are of the best quality thats why my ps1 still works perfectly.

[Knoxville]

Simply not true. That would only be the case if the consumer could *prove* that the cause of the fault was present when they took possession of the console, and even then they wouldn't necessarily be entitled to a repair as Sony could argue that the cost of repair or replacement would be disproportionate compared to providing compensation commensurate with the amount of use the consumer has had out of the console (i.e. you've had 18 months of play from the console so it's not reasonable for you to have another brand bew console). Things wear out. If you don't like the fact buy your console from a supplier who offers extended warranties...

Consoles never used to wear out in 18 months or less though. I never needed an extended warranty for my SNES and that still works, as does my Dreamcast, N64, Megadrive, Gameboy, PS2, Gamecube and my original Xbox, hell I've even got a ZX Spectrum downstairs that still works as well as the day my dad brought it home decades ago.

If a console fails 18 months into it's projected ten year lifecycle through no fault of the user then there's obviously something wrong with the hardware, whether it's a fault with the hardware in general or a lack of QA on the factory floor letting the odd faulty console slip through there's something wrong because three hundred quids worth of hardware should not kick up its heels and die inside of two years.

You could argue that the users experiencing trouble are all heavy users, people that have them on 18 hours a day, why shouldn't they? When I was younger my SNES would be turned on for days at a time if I was stuck on a particularly hard level because there was no such thing as a memory card but it still fires up reliably today. Microsoft might offer a three year warranty now but they're no better, they put out the console knowing it had problems and only pulled the three year warranty out of the hat when threatened with a lawsuit.

To be honest, I expect a console to last the duration of the generation (and no, a slimmer console, or a console with larger HD is not what I would call next gen, merely a refresh).

Spot on

[watercooled]

I think it's a bit of a slap in the face for all the PS3 fanboys constantly shouting (often over XBL...) RRoD... Yeah it still happens but newer 360s are far more reliable - probably on par with the <1% failure rate claimed by the PS3 yet they still go on about it. As mentioned at least you get 3 yrs free replacement warranty with the 360. And yeah I think the drive is encrypted for some reason because my friend wanted to get his saves etc off his old console but after spending ages trying to do it and connecting it to a computer we gave up and it appears it's just not possible anyway.

[cordas]

I would be happy with 12 months on a product that cost me £170 to buy, anymore warranty i would be thankful for.

I would suggest fan/loyalty comes with the library of games offered on the 360 and the price.

Generally newer models i.e. Jasper chipset's do not fail, or have a much lower failure rate, it is early to tell but it has been stated that Jasper revision seemingly has fixed (*extensively reduced the chance) the rrod issue.

Well more fool you..... Personally if I spent £170 (or a lot more for a PS3 when they came out) and it failed after 12months I would be fooking furious, I would want the manufacturers to replace the POS that they had sold me, and obviously others feel the same as I do, hence the complaints to Watchdog....

I would suggest the library of games (and the developers comments about not bothering to develop for the PS3) are a product of the popularity of the Xbox.... How has a console with a 50%+ failure rate managed to build such a huge fan base? How has it managed to get every developer wanting to develop games for a console where half the consoles break within 18months of purchase? Surely such a high failure rate should have killed off the platform.... Afterall £150-200 is a fair chunk of money and most people in the real world ain't going to be chucking that away every 18months on a console?

The reason I would suggest is because MS pulled their heads out from where the sun don't shine and started looking after their customers. Yes it may have taken the threat of legal action to make them do it, but they did it and are reaping the rewards of having far greater market share than the PS3.

Sony's stance on watchdog is a huge own goal.... they have effectively put 2 fingers up at people who own one of their consoles and have been unlucky enough to had one that has broken, given the increasing stink over this I can see this damaging the entire sony brand as it puts a question mark over not just their reliability but their customer service. Sony have gone to a fair amount of expense to build themselves a decent rep for making reliable equipment over the last decade or so, and I know half a dozen people who have specifically bought Sony goods on the back of that rep. If Sony want to flush that away then they are going the right way about it.... I just think they are insane.