News - iPad mini is launched, prices start from £269

[nat327]

And they keep saying other manufacturers are copying them

[Gordy]

Compared to the mini the nexus 7 doesn't look too good in the real world usage. I've got both here and the mini is a much better device. However for the cost the nexus is a stonking device, if the mini was sub £200 the nexus would struggle. However with the price difference there is plenty of space for both.

[TheAnimus]

what is it you find the ipad mini does better? is it a hardware or a software preference thing?

[Gordy]

The hardware is much better built and makes the nexus feel like the cheaper device it is. The plastic feel and piss poor speakers along with the poor build quality from asus let it down.

The apps on the nexus are either ok or poor (3rd party ones). The iOS apps have a level of detail and care far beyond the android ones. The main difference is that they actually designed for the iPad not a phone. If google can get devs to actual code for the nexus tablets they will have a much better device.

Just compare using the eBay and rightmove on both devices to see the gulf between the two ecosystems.

I see the iPad mini getting retina in say a years time. When that happens its going to be very hard to beat. The screen is its biggest weakness right now. However to get to this price retina wasn't possible. The two competitors the nexus and kindle are being sold with zero to no margin which isn't sustainable long term.

[Biscuit]

The speakers are poor, but how exactly is the rest of the build quality poor on the nexus? The plastic feel is actually very nice on the nexus and imo, and the opinion of a lot of reviewers, makes it feel of higher quality.

There are some apps that are a lot better in Android tablet than IOS tablet and the situation is improving by the day! cherry picking 2 or 3 specific ones doesn't prove anything. In fact one of the advantages of android is that you rarely have to pay extra for the tablet version of the app.

Whilst the nexus were being sold at or close to cost at first, now that they are pushing serious volume you have to assume they have probably struck some deals and improved their manufacturing process to bring production costs down. If they hadn't been profiting from the nexus I don't see how they could have managed to improve their profits the way they have, especially given 1 million nexus are being sold a month.

[Gordy]

Biscuit:

Those apps were just an example of the issue, I can list far more. I've had the nexus since launch and used it every day, I know it's short comings very well.

The plastic is nice as plastic goes, but once you feel the metal in the iPad mini it looks very different. For build quality, look at all the screen lifting issues and more. I've had three different nexus 7's and I'm not in a tiny minority of people who've had to return more than one.

I don't think the margins have improved, if anything they've gone backwards. The prices are even lower now with the introduction of the new models. ASUS themselves have stated they are making next to nothing on them. If they can find some manufacturer savings I doubt they will be keen to pass them onto google. The playstation method of building them at a lose early then getting the manufacturing sorted isn't going to work to well in the tablet arena. As you have to upgrade them year on year and not leave them pretty much as is for 5 years.

[watercooled]

TBF I also prefer the build quality of the Nexus, and it just feels more rugged than Apple stuff which you have to treat with extreme care to avoid dents/scratches/etc. It's been covered plenty of times, but other MFRs use plastics as they can easily flex to absorb energy, Apple use lots of glass/metals which TBH don't. It might look tougher and more 'cool' when you first buy it, but TBH I'd prefer something which is actually tougher and will remain looking intact for longer.

And I have to agree with Biscuit on the Apps too; there are tons on either platform and one user's experience will differ from others, so it's not as simple as comparing the few apps you have used. Most of the apps I have on my phone have a tablet interface; I tried most of them on my friend's Nexus when he was showing it off to me and they work great. One which really lends itself to a bigger screen is EveryCircuit, a great circuit simulator I found.

[Gordy]

TBF I also prefer the build quality of the Nexus, and it just feels more rugged than Apple stuff which you have to treat with extreme care to avoid dents/scratches/etc. It's been covered plenty of times, but other MFRs use plastics as they can easily flex to absorb energy, Apple use lots of glass/metals which TBH don't. It might look tougher and more 'cool' when you first buy it, but TBH I'd prefer something which is actually tougher and will remain looking intact for longer.

And I have to agree with Biscuit on the Apps too; there are tons on either platform and one user's experience will differ from others, so it's not as simple as comparing the few apps you have used. Most of the apps I have on my phone have a tablet interface; I tried most of them on my friend's Nexus when he was showing it off to me and they work great. One which really lends itself to a bigger screen is EveryCircuit, a great circuit simulator I found.

I think your right on the plastic being more robust when it comes to being dropped etc. I look after my kit very carefully so it's not something I think about.

As for the apps I'd be fine with it if it was just some fringe apps, but its not. I didn't find a single good twitter client, eBay apps and Facebook are big popular apps too. Which aren't good enough on the nexus 7.

[TheAnimus]

Thanks for coming back to explain, I'll be honest I can't see how you think that from the hardware side of things, but personal preference. I really don't find glass + alluminium good, I find it cheeremium, cheaper premium, I love the feal of my series 9 13 incher, but the air just feels fragile and delicate.

I found the screen poor on the new mini, in terms of reflection ambient of the light around plus the lack of nice fonts. I also didn't like the size as much as the nexus, the whole fit in pocket thing is just such a winner for me.

But on software your right. Android has a lot of things that are cool, which simply can't be done on other platforms, but Apple do have a lot more polished apps which do what they do well. With one notable exception.

Browsing the web on the iPad is crap, safari is just awful. Chrome on the nexus, with the better font rendering and resolution I prefer endlessly.

It's also interesting thou, because I will counter the whole "lack of a good app for x,y,z" with my playing on the Surface RT, which lacks an iPlayer app. However the website works just fine on it, and also appears to have a wider selection. In that case I can't see why I'd ever want to use the app. But that might be because I never download, only stream to watch now via iPlayer. However hopefully this example shows why I care more about the hardware, and the whole ecosystem, which includes can I plug this in. That is where the iPad mini falls down for me, its simply too expensive for something that is limited.

That and the fact a Nexus 7 is so cheap, its disposable.

[crossy]

The apps on the nexus are either ok or poor (3rd party ones). The iOS apps have a level of detail and care far beyond the android ones. The main difference is that they actually designed for the iPad not a phone. If google can get devs to actual code for the nexus tablets they will have a much better device. Just compare using the eBay and rightmove on both devices to see the gulf between the two ecosystems.

I see the iPad mini getting retina in say a years time. When that happens its going to be very hard to beat. The screen is its biggest weakness right now. However to get to this price retina wasn't possible. The two competitors the nexus and kindle are being sold with zero to no margin which isn't sustainable long term.

I'm not going to comment on the text that I removed from the quote above, but I will dive in on the rest.

If I cherry pick then I can find Android apps that look better than the iOS ones. Also by your reasoning then the apps on the Mini are going to look like crap because they were either designed for the iPhone (2"+ smaller) or the full-fat iPad (2"+ larger). Android devs have had access to Mini-sized devices for quite a while now.

The screen on the Mini is poor - the demo model I saw was worse than the old IPS display that I've got on my tablets - and there's no doubt that an "iPad Mini 2" is on the way, although lord knows how soon! The Kindle tablets - I'm going to argue - are sustainable long term since they're merely vehicles to sell the user more Amazon products. I'm willing to bet quite a lot that the planners at Amazon HQ have run the figures in every which way.

Me, I'm betting also on a smallish price "realignment" on the Mini post-Christmas.

[Gordy]

But on software your right. Android has a lot of things that are cool, which simply can't be done on other platforms, but Apple do have a lot more polished apps which do what they do well. With one notable exception.

Browsing the web on the iPad is crap, safari is just awful. Chrome on the nexus, with the better font rendering and resolution I prefer endlessly.

That and the fact a Nexus 7 is so cheap, its disposable.

Chrome is now available on the iPad and seems good. I use it over safari as I use chrome on the mac so it's easier to use the same on both.

I think the cheap and disposable thing is one of the big advantages of the Nexus 7. I certainly took it to a lot of places I would think twice before bringing a laptop. I used it far more as a result.

How are you finding the surface? I've not had a play yet so I'm interested on your views?

I'm not going to comment on the text that I removed from the quote above, but I will dive in on the rest.

If I cherry pick then I can find Android apps that look better than the iOS ones. Also by your reasoning then the apps on the Mini are going to look like crap because they were either designed for the iPhone (2"+ smaller) or the full-fat iPad (2"+ larger). Android devs have had access to Mini-sized devices for quite a while now.

The screen on the Mini is poor - the demo model I saw was worse than the old IPS display that I've got on my tablets - and there's no doubt that an "iPad Mini 2" is on the way, although lord knows how soon! The Kindle tablets - I'm going to argue - are sustainable long term since they're merely vehicles to sell the user more Amazon products. I'm willing to bet quite a lot that the planners at Amazon HQ have run the figures in every which way.

Me, I'm betting also on a smallish price "realignment" on the Mini post-Christmas.

I'm not cherry picking I'm listing some examples of apps. I can list tons more, the key apps a lot of people use on the Nexus are not good enough. It's that simple.

The iPad apps on the whole need no changes for the mini, there are couple of text heavy ones that could do with a slight tweak on the text size, but other than that they are perfect.

The screen is a definite downside on the Mini. However I find it about the same when it comes to my nexus, when sat side by side. Photo's look great on both.

I would argue that the Amazon tablets are only sustainable if Amazon as a whole are making profit. Too many quarters like the last and they will struggle to hold off shareholders.

At the end of the day any device needs to fit Your needs. If you have a smaller budget and want something that fits in a jean pocket, the nexus is a very good choice. If the iPad mini didn't exist I would have kept running the nexus happily. However for me the mini is far better device for my needs. Your needs may differ. I'm just happy there is now some decent competition in the tablet area as it will spur both sides to be on the top of the game.

Although I still dream of a iPad made by Apple with the OS by Apple, but with the services from Google/Yahoo and Amazon built in. Taking their respective key strengths. Shame they rather argue and fight, but as is life I suppose, I think that was Apple's initial plan for sure. Failing out with Google was the nail in that coffin.