News - Microsoft confirms “key aspects” of Windows 8 will change

[aidanjt]

I actually wrote code preventing people turning off Windows Themeing in XP (i.e. turn on Windows Classic) for our app.

Why?

[Saracen]

Ah OK, now we really have got a misunderstanding going on. That was an indefinite "you" not a second person "you". Perhaps I should have used "one" to be less ambiguous.

The "all's well that ends well" was an attempt to drop it, second time lucky..

It might have been less "ambiguous" if the post in question hadn't quoted my post first, because that provides some "context". But I think it makes my point about things not always being taken how they're meant.

Consider it dropped.

[crossy]

It's not just that it was reasonably clear in general, it is that crossy very clearly KNEW what I meant when he was writing his response. He deliberately misunderstood on purpose.

Yes, I know this is a dropped topic, but I couldn't let this little bit go - no I didn't "misunderstand on purpose". I'm from a computing generation one step onwards from the esteemed Saracen (so that's ZX81, Vic20's and just missing out on use of punched cards - although I did have hours of "fun" with tape drives and oldie Digital/DEC RL02 drives - if you don't have to Google that last reference dear reader then you are officially "old"). Saracen's comments about the evolution of the word "app" apply.

And yes, I took this whole conversation as being a good natured debate - no insults given nor received. Actually quite refreshing to hear another view point well argued.

And now I'll shut up and go back to remembrances of the kind of GUI's possible on storage tube technology... (look up Tektronix 4014 or 4052 if you're interested).

[dangel]

Why?

We were using it for rendering - classic turns it off entirely which breaks that.

[directhex]

Eh? Since when was minesweeper a third party app?

There are no games in Win8. If you visit the store, there is a Metro-only Minesweeper app from Microsoft Game Studios. My image is Minesweeper from sgt-puzzles.

I use VLC on my WinXP machine as well, it's just better than Media Player.

There is no non-Metro video player in Win8. Media Player is now Metro only. Click a video file, get Metro. You need to use third party apps for non-Metro video playback.

So actually there's no difference?

If your argument is predicated on being wrong, yes.

[Willzzz]

Minesweeper is just a stand alone exe isn't it? Just copy it over if you really can't live without it.

I still don't really get your objection to downloading VLC or similar, it's what everyone has always done with Windows.
It's no different from downloading Acrobat, it's just one of those things you do when you have a fresh install.

I mean it's fairly obvious that you have to download third party programs to do anything productive with your PC.
It's like saying Windows 7 is broken because you have to download a third party app to replace Microsoft Paint.

I don't really see the argument that Minesweeper or a Video Player are integral parts of an operating system.

[Saracen]

....

There is no non-Metro video player in Win8. Media Player is now Metro only. Click a video file, get Metro. You need to use third party apps for non-Metro video playback

.....

Perhaps ironically, that isn't part of what bothers me.

I've always felt Windows, as an OS, had a lot of padding, from minesweeper, to cut-down 3rd-party defraggers.

Personally, I'd rather all the stuffing was optional, and didn't install unless you wanted it, or at least, could be deselected prior to install (without using 3-rd party tools to strip out a custom install). If so, I'd have deselected Media Player and, for that matter, the defragger, because I use VLC and the full-blown commercial defragger.

Personally, I draw a distinction between the freebies, and the core OS UI.

[Saracen]

Minesweeper is just a stand alone exe isn't it? Just copy it over if you really can't live without it.

I still don't really get your objection to downloading VLC or similar, it's what everyone has always done with Windows.
It's no different from downloading Acrobat, it's just one of those things you do when you have a fresh install.

I mean it's fairly obvious that you have to download third party programs to do anything productive with your PC.
It's like saying Windows 7 is broken because you have to download a third party app to replace Microsoft Paint.

I don't really see the argument that Minesweeper or a Video Player are integral parts of an operating system.

On that, at least, we do agree.

I've always regarded the bulk of that sort of stuff as unwanted bloatware .... and often, 2nd-rate, castrated bloatware.

[dangel]

There's an expectation of that functionality though - and a lot of people will use them. See Internet Explorer, Media Player.

Me (you) - us? Of course we'll know the alternatives and use those instead but don't think of it as the majority. Quite happy to have the install minimum then go online for the extras model though myself.

It's always a calculated risk though removing stuff from software - someone will complain. Always.


A MUI video player isn't the problem - it's closing the darn thing and getting back to the desktop..

[3dcandy]

Had reason to go into an office recently...they'd bought some new machines as they had taken on extra staff, they of course came with Win 8. Was very very funny to find that people were sharing XP machines that were as slow as a one legged tortoise with cramp whilst the "silly tiles" and "no start menu" machines were on but idle...

[Saracen]

There's an expectation of that functionality though - and a lot of people will use them. See Internet Explorer, Media Player.

Me (you) - us? Of course we'll know the alternatives and use those instead but don't think of it as the majority. Quite happy to have the install minimum then go online for the extras model though myself.

It's always a calculated risk though removing stuff from software - someone will complain. Always.

....

Agree with that, too.

/Note to self - must stop doing that in this thread - it's getting to be a habit.

[aidanjt]

We were using it for rendering - classic turns it off entirely which breaks that.

Ah, that's annoying.

[Noxvayl]

There's an expectation of that functionality though - and a lot of people will use them. See Internet Explorer, Media Player.

Me (you) - us? Of course we'll know the alternatives and use those instead but don't think of it as the majority. Quite happy to have the install minimum then go online for the extras model though myself.

It's always a calculated risk though removing stuff from software - someone will complain. Always.

I find this troubling though, we keep having to deal with these one size fits all solutions because of the majority focus. I'd prefer an approach that at least provides those that are capable with the options for their own set of programs that come with the base operating system. Include all of the above for all installations sold with hardware but give the ones installing it the choice of what they include.

A MUI video player isn't the problem - it's closing the darn thing and getting back to the desktop..

Agreed, that annoyed me the most when first using Windows 8. It made the desktop feel like an after thought.

[aramil]

There is no non-Metro video player in Win8. Media Player is now Metro only. Click a video file, get Metro. You need to use third party apps for non-Metro video playback.

Media player is still there (on win 8 pro). Just change the default player. I use it to share to several tvs in my house.

[dangel]

Agree with that, too.

/Note to self - must stop doing that in this thread - it's getting to be a habit.

Nobody noticed, honest

I find this troubling though, we keep having to deal with these one size fits all solutions because of the majority focus. I'd prefer an approach that at least provides those that are capable with the options for their own set of programs that come with the base operating system. Include all of the above for all installations sold with hardware but give the ones installing it the choice of what they include.

You would, understandably - but i'd point you to the fact that MS already provides the tools you need to do just that. You can both add/remove features from Windows AND integrate software/drivers into a Windows DVD. If you can be bothered. Since hard drive space isn't a problem for most it's not worth it - that and couple with the fact that 8 is geared around not loading processes unless required (e.g. services) it's mostly a non issue for performance too. You could always be one of the three people Worldwide installing an 'N' version of Windows though

Agreed, that annoyed me the most when first using Windows 8. It made the desktop feel like an after thought.

...and this is far more important than a full screen start menu or the button to launch it. I'm frustrated by the lack of realistic prioritisation by some.

Media player is still there (on win 8 pro). Just change the default player. I use it to share to several tvs in my house.

Daft thing is I didn't flag it when he said that even though i've used said many times. In fact it's "Included in Windows 8 and Windows 8 Pro" according to MS themselves.
Ironically - MS also do a version of Minesweeper for free in their store (along with solitaire et al) so aside from downloading it that's wrong too. Ars sums up what's available here: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/1...-of-windows-8/

If your argument is predicated on being wrong, yes.

[Noxvayl]

You would, understandably - but i'd point you to the fact that MS already provides the tools you need to do just that. You can both add/remove features from Windows AND integrate software/drivers into a Windows DVD. If you can be bothered. Since hard drive space isn't a problem for most it's not worth it - that and couple with the fact that 8 is geared around not loading processes unless required (e.g. services) it's mostly a non issue for performance too. You could always be one of the three people Worldwide installing an 'N' version of Windows though

They do, that is news to me... How is it done? I'm currently seeing how well Steam works in Ubuntu and playing some of my games available in Linux but I won't be staying on Linux, far more problems for me to overcome in Ubuntu than in Windows 8 so I suspect I'll spend less time in Ubuntu than I did in Windows 8. It would be awesome to have a go at stripping the stuff I don't like out of my Windows installation.